2016 Postmortem

Vattel

(9,289 posts)

143. I wonder if he understands your point or is just choosing to ignore it.

Tue Oct 13, 2015, 04:54 PM

Oct 2015

Not only did the resolution not include a trigger, it didn't even require Bush to go to war for the sake of enforcing UN resolutions. It authorized Bush to make a determination of whether war was necessary because "reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq." Notice the "or." He was indeed given a blank check.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

173 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Will Bernie Sanders engage in demagoguery against Hillary Clinton re Iraq War Resolution [View all] stevenleser Oct 2015 OP

So Hillary is wrong for saying her vote was wrong? MannyGoldstein Oct 2015 #1

Maybe Steve should manplain all of this to Hillary... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Oct 2015 #91

did you find a cute new word in your lexicon? Sheepshank Oct 2015 #119

If I didn't say mansplain, no one would have responded WhaTHellsgoingonhere Oct 2015 #134

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THAT WORD Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #142

Men are allowed to mansplain when they are given appropriate pre-authorization, huh? Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #141

No. Hillary can say she was wrong. It's only wrong for OTHER PEOPLE to point it out! reformist2 Oct 2015 #137

Why don't you ask the 5000 dead American soldiers who fought and died in that war? Major Hogwash Oct 2015 #2

Who would have died anyway if the IWR hadnt passed because Iraq would have been in breach of stevenleser Oct 2015 #3

You've spent as much time in the military as Donald Trump!!! Major Hogwash Oct 2015 #5

Your assumption is incorrect. I'm former active duty USAF. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #6

Sure you are, Steve. Major Hogwash Oct 2015 #7

What you believe is not at issue and doesn't matter. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #11

"What you believe is not at issue and doesn't matter" arcane1 Oct 2015 #47

This message was self-deleted by its author 840high Oct 2015 #93

OMG really....you are publically calling Steve a liar on this? Sheepshank Oct 2015 #43

^^This is the sure sign of an alert being sent^^ DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #106

If it hasn't been alerted on yet, it certainly deserves it Sheepshank Oct 2015 #107

You can do better than that. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #115

in what way, Charlie? Sheepshank Oct 2015 #117

I believe it was "...in what respect, Charlie?" DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #118

so you agree with the sentiment that Sheepshank Oct 2015 #120

Keep trying. And good luck. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #121

Yep. This is the kind of discourse you get from a lot of these folks. But they are quick stevenleser Oct 2015 #122

So said the "writer" bvf Oct 2015 #150

Lol, let me know when you have something interesting or relevant to say. stevenleser Oct 2015 #160

When you've demonstrated a basic mastery bvf Oct 2015 #169

I can't believe the "you didn't serve" card was just pulled out on you on a progressive site. nt. NCTraveler Oct 2015 #19

The quality of debate we get from Sanders supporters here is abysmal. stevenleser Oct 2015 #22

Have a team standing by! William769 Oct 2015 #38

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #76

You're really pointing the finger at Hillary supporters regarding teaming up? stevenleser Oct 2015 #87

Berned. William769 Oct 2015 #95

LOL, Berned-out! stevenleser Oct 2015 #101

Now just a cotton-pickin' minute there! KamaAina Oct 2015 #130

Capt. Nelson Muntz calls the major into his office to say KamaAina Oct 2015 #112

;-) stevenleser Oct 2015 #127

Wow. I didn't think even Republicans believed that load anymore! Give it up already. reformist2 Oct 2015 #139

How many americans died from unrestricted gun insanity right here at home workinclasszero Oct 2015 #9

because if only we could sue the manufacturers retrowire Oct 2015 #77

Uhm kenfrequed Oct 2015 #83

While Hillary was quietly raking in profits from gun sales sitting on the BOD and as a shareholder Snotcicles Oct 2015 #100

Hillary's views on guns are well known workinclasszero Oct 2015 #111

I think you should quit pointing your finger at other candidates until you look at Snotcicles Oct 2015 #113

+ 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 orpupilofnature57 Oct 2015 #151

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #4

Bush misused the AUMF? neverforget Oct 2015 #8

a freakin men. ^^^^this x 10000^^^^ nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #10

And that exactly what you are doing is engaging in demagoguery and revisionism. stevenleser Oct 2015 #12

Oh for God's sake Steve. Everyone knew Bush wanted to invade Iraq. The inspectors was the excuse neverforget Oct 2015 #14

Assuming for a moment that's true. Not voting for IWR would have given him justification. stevenleser Oct 2015 #15

And once the inspectors were readmitted they reported to the UN and the world that there were no WMD George II Oct 2015 #27

Exactly. That made the Iraq war an unprovoked war of aggression because there was no basis stevenleser Oct 2015 #31

See here, Fred, or whoever RobertEarl Oct 2015 #29

Do you remember all that cooking of intelligence? Stove-piping the intel? neverforget Oct 2015 #41

Sure. But do you understand what the issue is here with international law? stevenleser Oct 2015 #54

How did everyone "know bush wanted to invade Iraq"? I keep hearing that but no one.. George II Oct 2015 #25

That's why I didn't address it other than to say "assuming that's true" because it requires us to stevenleser Oct 2015 #32

Here you go neverforget Oct 2015 #49

I've seen all of that stuff, but it wasn't known until 2004 or even later. George II Oct 2015 #55

Yep. This is a common aspect of the revisionism on this. People take things that happened on certain stevenleser Oct 2015 #58

The revisionism is with you. neverforget Oct 2015 #82

This message was self-deleted by its author stevenleser Oct 2015 #84

I see your mistake. There is another interpretation here. stevenleser Oct 2015 #85

LOL! Just the fact that they wanted to invade Iraq on 9/11 but had to make neverforget Oct 2015 #88

And you and the rest of us knew that before the legislation passed? George II Oct 2015 #136

Plans For Iraq Attack Began On 9/11 neverforget Oct 2015 #161

No matter how many times you or others repeat that, it was a secret until a year or two AFTER... George II Oct 2015 #164

Except for this CBS news link from Sept 2002, no one knew about it. neverforget Oct 2015 #167

And on what date did the bush administration inform Congress and the rest of the country... George II Oct 2015 #99

You can't seriously be making this argument. Marr Oct 2015 #145

It wasn't difficult to figure out that Bush and Cheney specifically had surrounded themselves neverforget Oct 2015 #81

You understand that Iraq was still in breach of international law at this time, right? stevenleser Oct 2015 #86

Yes Caretha Oct 2015 #171

PNAC had called for war with Iraq before 9/11 jfern Oct 2015 #129

"Lie"? C'mon-- this is absurd. /nt Marr Oct 2015 #144

So why wasn't there a trigger in the authorization? jeff47 Oct 2015 #53

Not at all. But they think we are. leftupnorth Oct 2015 #57

There were arguments in congress for how much teeth to put in the trigger. Ultimately stevenleser Oct 2015 #62

So yes, you think they are idiots. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2015 #65

You are characterizing voting to support international law as being idiots? An interesting stevenleser Oct 2015 #66

No, I'm characterizing a blank check as being idiots. jeff47 Oct 2015 #172

Wasn't that the Levin Amendment? NobodyHere Oct 2015 #162

Everyone knew Bush wanted to get his war on jfern Oct 2015 #125

$250 million of US taxpayer dollars were funding that propaganda campaign jfern Oct 2015 #126

Iraq had already agreed unconditionaly in September to readmit the inspectors. Vattel Oct 2015 #156

Exactly. bvf Oct 2015 #13

Assuming that's true, thank you for kicking my OP with a post! stevenleser Oct 2015 #17

Always happy to put the spotlight on bvf Oct 2015 #131

petty.....it's about as pathetic as a post can get on DU. n/t Sheepshank Oct 2015 #45

+1.nt Snotcicles Oct 2015 #48

Exactly. See my #22 above. More Roto-Rooter posts. stevenleser Oct 2015 #96

Obviously you never read the document. "It was The Authorization for the use of Military Force".... George II Oct 2015 #37

the entire situation was manipulated, and the media were willing participants. Bernie voted against still_one Oct 2015 #105

So, now her yes vote was the right vote? Broward Oct 2015 #16

I think it should all be fair game tonight. NCTraveler Oct 2015 #18

Don't trust the source. artislife Oct 2015 #20

If he really wanted to demagogue he could pull out your quote LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #21

That would be fantastic. I think you should call him up and tell him to do that. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #23

He wouldn't take that advice LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #39

p.s., thank you for kicking my OP! nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #24

Schlitzie himself would have probably given bvf Oct 2015 #135

unbelievable ibegurpard Oct 2015 #26

All my points are supported. Your beliefs on responsibility for the Iraq war are simply wrong stevenleser Oct 2015 #34

the revisionist history is coming from you ibegurpard Oct 2015 #40

Nope, all my points are supported. The arguments on the other side are all emotional. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #59

Was Hillary fooled by Bush and Cheney or was it political cowardice that drove her decision? virtualobserver Oct 2015 #50

it was political expediency ibegurpard Oct 2015 #79

oops- fortunately we only experienced "modest and acceptable" casualties virtualobserver Oct 2015 #90

Like Vietnam, it was a war fought for PR. And, like Vietnam, we lost the war. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #28

Yawn x2 cherokeeprogressive Oct 2015 #30

"That President George W. Bush misused the Iraq War Resolution..... George II Oct 2015 #33

Why could I see what a mistake it was from my couch, when Hillary couldn't see it from Washington? virtualobserver Oct 2015 #46

to think her very own husband was privy to daily CIA briefings reddread Oct 2015 #124

So the people voting for the AUMF were idiots. jeff47 Oct 2015 #56

Nope, they were voting to support international law that Iraq was violating at the time. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #64

Which could be accomplished without a blank check. So why pass a blank check jeff47 Oct 2015 #73

It wouldn't have mattered. stevenleser Oct 2015 #75

Then that would make it very easy to include a trigger. jeff47 Oct 2015 #80

I wonder if he understands your point or is just choosing to ignore it. Vattel Oct 2015 #143

I think he understands but doesn't want to address it. jeff47 Oct 2015 #173

Birdcage lining Z_California Oct 2015 #35

Yes, your response is birdcage lining. It doesnt address any points in the OP. stevenleser Oct 2015 #36

Did more Americans die in Iraq or from gun violence since 2003? nt LexVegas Oct 2015 #42

Wait, it's now demagoguery to challenge people on their voting record? WTF!? Bread and Circus Oct 2015 #44

Hillary knew exactly what she was doing, she knew what Bush was gling to do. She supported him. morningfog Oct 2015 #51

We'll ask you again in 8 years, when you will have the opposite conclusion. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2015 #52

Nope, I believed this 9 years ago. There is no other conclusion. This is supported by fact. stevenleser Oct 2015 #60

Whoooooooooooosh jeff47 Oct 2015 #67

Nope, not wooosh. Giving you the opportunity to take the high road, and you chose the low one. stevenleser Oct 2015 #69

I'm afraid it's the muck covering your body, not everyone around you. jeff47 Oct 2015 #71

Yes, I know, no one is entitled to change their mind but Saint Bernard. Keep pushing that meme! stevenleser Oct 2015 #72

Those that actually change their mind can explain the change. jeff47 Oct 2015 #74

I explained the change. You are just desperate to hang onto the meme. That's how bad the arguments stevenleser Oct 2015 #78

A discredited blogger and pundit with zero integrity TM99 Oct 2015 #61

I didn't know you were a blogger and pundit. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. p.s... stevenleser Oct 2015 #63

If you are getting anything other than TM99 Oct 2015 #68

Again, thank you for kicking my op! nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #70

he probably is getting several strokes wendylaroux Oct 2015 #89

I read these replies and have to remind myself that they're coming from a grown man and "journalist" frylock Oct 2015 #104

...^ that 840high Oct 2015 #94

Integrity, honesty, shame LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #109

Contortionists coming out of the woodwork. moondust Oct 2015 #92

A Fuk News contributor. cpompilo Oct 2015 #97

So Clinton is wrong when she says her Iraq War Resolution vote was a mistake? n/t PoliticAverse Oct 2015 #98

I find all this very silly, sadoldgirl Oct 2015 #102

Will Hillary Clinton be called to task for her poor decision making? frylock Oct 2015 #103

Who would of thought in 2015 there would be people defending the invasion of Iraq Truprogressive85 Oct 2015 #108

People defending the Iraq invasion calling themselves Democrats no less LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #110

conservative profiteers who want both parties to themselves reddread Oct 2015 #123

Yup Truprogressive85 Oct 2015 #157

No one is defending the invasion of Iraq. That is your straw man. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #128

stick to being a token "liberal" on Fox News. ibegurpard Oct 2015 #152

Stick to using logical fallacies in your arguments. Nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #158

If you say so Truprogressive85 Oct 2015 #155

I wrote it so yeah, I know what I wrote. If you want to talk about it try reading it. Nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #159

no thank you Truprogressive85 Oct 2015 #166

Hillary knew exactly what she was doing jfern Oct 2015 #114

I hope she is pummeled for that morally bankrupt vote. AtomicKitten Oct 2015 #116

I must be a revisionist HassleCat Oct 2015 #132

K & R, good article, Steve. Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #133

You mean her voting record as an elected official is supposed to be off limits? Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #138

You are the one who misrepresented Bernie's stance on Assault Weapons. Motown_Johnny Oct 2015 #140

This is such bullshit. PowerToThePeople Oct 2015 #146

Sorry Steven, gotta disagree with the notion that it would fit the definition of "demagoguery"... phleshdef Oct 2015 #147

Sure hope so. Truth is demagoguery to the promoters of the fictions that led to war. mmonk Oct 2015 #148

Your history is incomplete in certain crucial respects. Vattel Oct 2015 #149

This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Oct 2015 #153

Demagoguery? U of M Dem Oct 2015 #154

Iraq and Clinton Foundation donations. And TPP and probably NAFTA, artfully or otherwise. ucrdem Oct 2015 #163

Wrong question. John Poet Oct 2015 #165

Sounds like the interventionist wing is cooking up a rationale to start a war if they are stupidly TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #168

You use the word "demagoguery" like Cheney used the word "do-gooders". Marr Oct 2015 #170