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2016 Postmortem

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DanTex

(20,709 posts)
Mon Oct 19, 2015, 10:03 AM Oct 2015

Not voting for the Dem nominee next Nov is an act of selfish privilege, plain and simple. [View all]

A GOP administration will do real, material harm to the nation. Some people will suffer a lot, some not so much, and a small group may benefit, if only temporarily.

As Clinton has consolidated her lead after a strong debate performance, and looks increasingly likely to become the nominee, chatter about sitting out the general, or voting third party, has increased. Let's be clear: doing this is an act of selfish privilege.

The main benefit cited by people sitting out the general is "conscience". This is selfish: it means being willing to see many other people suffer in real ways in order to feel better about oneself. Also, obviously, if the thing keeping you up at night is having voted for an imperfect candidate, that means you are sleeping in a comfortable bed, in a nice house, after a nice dinner. If you are at risk of losing your healthcare, SS, home, job, etc. due to the consequences of a GOP presidency, then you don't have the luxury of ideological purity.

And then there's the argument about "sending a message" to the party elites. Again, people who aren't well-to-do don't care about sending messages as much as they care about the basic necessities of life. People who will need to forgo medical care because the GOP gets rid of Obamacare, or people who will drop into poverty after the GOP cuts SS, aren't going to be very keen on trading that for the sake of a "message."

There are ways of sending messages that don't put the future of the nation at risk. For example, in writing. Or voting in the primary. If the primary doesn't go exactly the way you want it, that means that your message was heard, but there were more people who believed in a different message, and a different candidate. Burning down the house because you don't get your way is not acting on principle, it is acting like a spoiled child.

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Let's not have another Florida redstateblues Oct 2015 #1
One could be a conservative. NCTraveler Oct 2015 #2
K &R LW1977 Oct 2015 #3
Do we have to have ten of these a day now? Is that the new normal? virtualobserver Oct 2015 #4
apparently they believe in the restorefreedom Oct 2015 #9
Now that Hillary has been voted "Ms. Inevitable" in the Presidential Pundit Pageant..... virtualobserver Oct 2015 #16
How dare us have a conscience?!?!?! leftupnorth Oct 2015 #23
i know, right? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #35
The same thing would apply if Bernie overtakes her. He can't win without pnwmom Oct 2015 #94
they don't virtualobserver Oct 2015 #104
Huh. I guess some people finally know what it's like to have your vote taken for granted. leftupnorth Oct 2015 #112
Yes. Because it's one of Clinton's biggest vulnerabilities. jeff47 Oct 2015 #21
The beatings will continue until morale improves! leftupnorth Oct 2015 #25
Stupid voters, no, it'll be the old standby, liberals. A Simple Game Oct 2015 #78
The new normal? Probably. MineralMan Oct 2015 #32
Yes, and this was my opinion, and I found the sudden burst of this kind of post notable... virtualobserver Oct 2015 #41
I dunno JustAnotherGen Oct 2015 #5
NJ elected Christie, lots of Democrats there said 'so what, why bother' and you have Chris as your Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #58
My friend - I'm well aware of all of this JustAnotherGen Oct 2015 #59
You work with Republicans and want lower taxes for yourself. That does not impress me. Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #66
I don't mind paying Federal or State Taxes JustAnotherGen Oct 2015 #95
Steaming mad, clutching at the bucks, I love NJ and just do not agree with you. You are not Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #136
Well said. nt BootinUp Oct 2015 #6
I agree. That's why every Hillary supporter has pledged to support Sanders should he BlueCaliDem Oct 2015 #7
The "my way or the highway" mentality Zing Zing Zingbah Oct 2015 #33
The "Horseshoe Theory" BlueCaliDem Oct 2015 #39
Those goose stepping hippies! AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #50
? BlueCaliDem Oct 2015 #52
I hope you didn't get anything on you when you dragged that theory out of the garbage bin. n/t A Simple Game Oct 2015 #90
Except that's not true, even in this thread you have people who say they won't vote for him if Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #87
I would vote for Sanders if he was the nominee. Zing Zing Zingbah Oct 2015 #109
WooHoo! Strong stuff here but it gets to the crux of the matter brush Oct 2015 #8
Geez. From the headline I actually thought I might be able to to like one of your posts HERVEPA Oct 2015 #10
"a GOP administration will do real material harm" restorefreedom Oct 2015 #11
On the one hand you think 4 to 8 years is not that long to wait, BootinUp Oct 2015 #19
I've been waiting my entire adult life. jeff47 Oct 2015 #22
Again, not sure I see any actual logic there that would achieve a goal. BootinUp Oct 2015 #40
It's only a turning point if you actually move the status quo. jeff47 Oct 2015 #48
^^^THIS^^^ haikugal Oct 2015 #56
Just because you and many others are pissed BootinUp Oct 2015 #84
Answer me this, how do you know what you can obtain if you don't try for it? A Simple Game Oct 2015 #98
That type of thinking would apply when you have no idea what the opposition BootinUp Oct 2015 #106
yup. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #43
i don't believe in miracles restorefreedom Oct 2015 #42
interesting graph you may not have seen BootinUp Oct 2015 #44
uh huh... restorefreedom Oct 2015 #49
Having the GOP in power will make all of that worse. Period. DanTex Oct 2015 #31
i agree with you short term restorefreedom Oct 2015 #38
I understand what you're saying. Another DU'er and I were discussing the possibility of.. BlueJazz Oct 2015 #86
some people take a while to figure it out restorefreedom Oct 2015 #97
Hillary supporters are getting more creative in regurgitating WhaTHellsgoingonhere Oct 2015 #12
Of course it is. It's childish to boot. nt sufrommich Oct 2015 #13
What's worse? leftupnorth Oct 2015 #14
exactly, the only real difference between hillary and jeb is that jeb is more honest bowens43 Oct 2015 #54
What's worse????? dpatbrown Oct 2015 #72
Yes, because a corporatist democrat is not going to nominate justices that will overturn Citizens United leftupnorth Oct 2015 #111
I'm not sure dpatbrown Oct 2015 #114
Only one candidate has said he would nominate justices who would overturn it. leftupnorth Oct 2015 #117
I believe that is incorrect. BootinUp Oct 2015 #121
I have a real hard time believing any of that. Don't ask me why. leftupnorth Oct 2015 #122
Then, you can just say that she claims she will appoint BootinUp Oct 2015 #123
I'm not anti-Hillary. I'm anti-corporatist. This goes well beyond personality and hairstyles. It's principle. leftupnorth Oct 2015 #124
She has put out her policies BootinUp Oct 2015 #125
Yes, and they sound great, but there is no intent to actually implement much of it, if any. leftupnorth Oct 2015 #126
I guess from my point of view, I think someone is wasting my time and BootinUp Oct 2015 #127
See, I'd rather fight and lose on principles than win with the devil on my side. That way, I retain my humanity and dignity. leftupnorth Oct 2015 #128
Yeah me too, what it comes down to is perception just like in all things BootinUp Oct 2015 #130
Possibly. leftupnorth Oct 2015 #132
K&R mcar Oct 2015 #15
This has no effect on me next time try harder and try not to sound so desperate and frignented. YabaDabaNoDinoNo Oct 2015 #17
Oh, I get it. Clintonistas are now afraid she's too weak to win in the general. closeupready Oct 2015 #18
that is exactly it restorefreedom Oct 2015 #51
Then you better get to work providing reasons to vote for her jeff47 Oct 2015 #20
"Better than a Republican" is lame Mnpaul Oct 2015 #120
You're right, fuck my children. Jamie Dimon wants a little more. mmonk Oct 2015 #24
Are you suggesting that your children will fare better under the GOP than the Democratic nominee? DanTex Oct 2015 #26
Nope Alittleliberal Oct 2015 #61
and dsc Oct 2015 #134
Loyalty oaths - TBF Oct 2015 #27
Like Clockwork... Every Time... WillyT Oct 2015 #63
The other one I've seen this morning is TBF Oct 2015 #93
I plan to vote for the GOP candidate, just to piss some people here off Armstead Oct 2015 #28
Yeah, pissing off Clinton supporters is another motivation for sitting out or voting GOP DanTex Oct 2015 #29
K&R RandySF Oct 2015 #30
Given that Progressives could make up a large block of voting Democrats, jalan48 Oct 2015 #34
The main reason I wont vote for clinton is because of her supporters making posts like this GummyBearz Oct 2015 #36
So there! lol. BootinUp Oct 2015 #37
I'm not sure if this is just pathetic or dispicable stupidicus Oct 2015 #45
So vote for Bernie then. cui bono Oct 2015 #46
Exactly, and btw, not voting for Bernie can be seen as an act of selfish privilege as well. Broward Oct 2015 #103
I completely agree! cui bono Oct 2015 #119
Great post Gothmog Oct 2015 #47
Bullshit. bowens43 Oct 2015 #53
Not really unless you live in a swing state (OH, FL, VA, NM, CO, NH). I am in MD and MD's kelly1mm Oct 2015 #55
You do know that in our lifetimes All of those States have voted Republican? Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #60
Sure I do (Reagan 1984). However if this is a wave election like 84 (in either direction) kelly1mm Oct 2015 #64
"it really does not matter if you stay home" Martin Eden Oct 2015 #75
Nice editing job. Did you read the clause before your quote that specifically limits kelly1mm Oct 2015 #81
Those States you think are Democratic by God's will are Democratic by Democratic efforts and Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #92
Nice theory. However if the Democraic nominee for President is in danger of losing Maryland kelly1mm Oct 2015 #99
National elections are on the same ballot as US House, Senate, & local elections Martin Eden Oct 2015 #105
Thank you for the kind words and I could have been clearer in my wording like your linked post is!nt kelly1mm Oct 2015 #108
The reality is this: if Bernie is the nominee the voting population will explode. DrBulldog Oct 2015 #57
^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^ fbc Oct 2015 #68
In reality, manipulation of districting and limits on voting rights will prevent that onenote Oct 2015 #69
Well put dpatbrown Oct 2015 #115
+1 kristopher Oct 2015 #107
I'm a Bernie supporter and I'm going to do exactly what Bernie would do if he isn't the nominee. phleshdef Oct 2015 #62
Me too, and I find it to be very ironic that some who say 'Bernie is not a Democrat' also say Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #83
easy for you to say Robbins Oct 2015 #65
The post overlooks that Hillary Clinton "will do real, material harm to the nation" fbc Oct 2015 #67
Please don't lump all boomers together Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #133
K&R! stonecutter357 Oct 2015 #70
One of the problems is: edgineered Oct 2015 #71
awful lot of these sorts of threads these days Lazy Daisy Oct 2015 #73
nicely done. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #129
I will not be bullied into giving my vote to a politician I do not want elected. Maedhros Oct 2015 #74
I agree, not would be worse than having some gopiscrap Oct 2015 #76
Absolutely. I guess those so "principled" that won't "compromise" are those so privileged lunamagica Oct 2015 #77
Fine I will vote for her if she is the nominee but let me tell jwirr Oct 2015 #79
AMEN!! I'M A BERNIE FAN, BUT I WILL GLADLY PULL THE LEVER FOR HILLARY! WE MUST NOT secondwind Oct 2015 #80
Be careful - people don't like their privilege identified Stuckinthebush Oct 2015 #82
bully talk isn't how you win elections PatrynXX Oct 2015 #85
I only voted once in a presidential election: 1997. NT. anamnua Oct 2015 #88
I think your premise is wrong, because... thesquanderer Oct 2015 #89
Let me see if I can word this correctly bkkyosemite Oct 2015 #91
Fuck voting party over principles!!! pocoloco Oct 2015 #96
People have been voting party bkkyosemite Oct 2015 #100
Too much is at stake, esp with SC nominees coming up for ANY dem to sit out the riversedge Oct 2015 #101
Not switching your support to Sanders right now is an act of selfish privilege whatchamacallit Oct 2015 #102
I am a Bernie supporter who believes that any eventual winner from the Democratic debate the other Dustlawyer Oct 2015 #110
unrec. - still at it, eh? 840high Oct 2015 #113
You'd think we'd have learned something from 2000. nt BlueCheese Oct 2015 #116
No bigwillq Oct 2015 #118
Then tell Hillary to drop out Reter Oct 2015 #131
It's an act of alienated voters. Strategic voters who are Dems will vote for the nominee eridani Oct 2015 #135
It would be a slap in the face to social liberal groups including pro-choice and gay rights groups AZ Progressive Oct 2015 #137
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