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Pinback

(12,155 posts)
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 01:59 PM Jan 2022

Seriously, Upgrade Your Face Mask

Omicron is everywhere. Dr. Abraar Karan explains why cloth masks don’t cut it.
- By Chas Danner, New York Magazine, Intelligencer, Dec. 30, 2021 (no paywall)

Throughout the pandemic, wearing a face mask has been one of the best ways that anyone can easily reduce their risk of catching or spreading COVID-19. Putting aside the often contentious debate over mask mandates, face masks remain a crucial and effective individual tool, which is why it continues to be frustrating that most people, two years in, are not wearing better masks.

-- SNIP --

One of the most vocal advocates for the use of higher-quality masks throughout the pandemic has been Stanford infectious-diseases doctor Abraar Karan, who has researched COVID transmission and been calling for the use of high-filtration masks since the spring of 2020. His Twitter feed continues to be an invaluable resource for information on mask effectiveness, criticism of the inadequate public-health efforts regarding masking, and other commentary on COVID-19. I spoke with Dr. Karan about his ongoing campaign for better masks, their importance in the fight against Omicron, and why you should replace that cloth mask in your underwear drawer.

Why should people start using high-filtration masks like N95s and KN95s as their go-to, everyday masks rather than cloth ones?
The key reason is that transmission of the coronavirus is primarily through aerosols, which float around in the air — you inhale them — and are not filtered well by cloth masks. You really need melt-blown polypropylene, which you find in surgical masks and N95s, to stop these small particles.

So the materials used to make these masks make them better equipped to filter out the virus?
Yeah. The material is basically melt-blown polymers, like polypropylene, which form this complex sort of webbing which is then electrostatically charged, and that pulls the particles in when you’re inhaling and exhaling. Cloth masks are often just woven thread and other materials that don’t have that design. Cloth masks don’t provide great source control, either. The CDC is now letting people who test positive for COVID-19 stop isolating after five days and then wear a mask for five days. It would have been ideal for them to also recommend that be a better mask.

- more at link: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/12/why-you-should-upgrade-your-face-mask-to-an-n95.html
32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Seriously, Upgrade Your Face Mask (Original Post) Pinback Jan 2022 OP
His Science Is Essentially Sound ProfessorGAC Jan 2022 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Jan 2022 #3
I Just Double Up ProfessorGAC Jan 2022 #7
Thank you. I just had a co-worker say yesterday that DeeNice Jan 2022 #5
Agreed qazplm135 Jan 2022 #6
"...cloth masks are better than no masks but if you want even better protection..." Pinback Jan 2022 #15
"First not everyone can afford more than a cloth mask." See the site named in Post 11 in this thread Pinback Jan 2022 #25
You can make cloth masks qazplm135 Jan 2022 #31
Fair point. The disinformationists will seize on any tiny factoid out of context Pinback Jan 2022 #8
Still Have Issue With That ProfessorGAC Jan 2022 #9
Neither of these sources suggests that a cloth mask is useless. Pinback Jan 2022 #13
That should be the lede qazplm135 Jan 2022 #16
That's Not What I Said ProfessorGAC Jan 2022 #18
You stated, "A cloth mask is still better than no mask," true. Pinback Jan 2022 #21
I have made some new masks with Pellon interfacing. ProudMNDemocrat Jan 2022 #2
I wear masks with two layers of cloth dflprincess Jan 2022 #28
That works too. ProudMNDemocrat Jan 2022 #30
My family wears KN95 masks now. Ilsa Jan 2022 #4
Bought 80 n95's last week! I wear it nice and tight around people. lindysalsagal Jan 2022 #10
ProjectN95 nilram Jan 2022 #11
Looks like a great resource. Thanks! (nt) Pinback Jan 2022 #19
I switched to KN95s more than a year ago... DemocraticPatriot Jan 2022 #12
We wear kn95s MissB Jan 2022 #14
Yeah, we've upped our game here as well. Pinback Jan 2022 #24
I don't go many places luv2fly Jan 2022 #17
Cloth masks ar not all equal. Ms. Toad Jan 2022 #20
Good info, thanks. Pinback Jan 2022 #22
We're using KN94 masks now - Ms. Toad Jan 2022 #32
I've been double-layering with KN95 under cloth mask with filter pocket for about 6 months now (n/t) Spider Jerusalem Jan 2022 #23
Oh my ... Delphinus Jan 2022 #26
LOL, I hadn't even looked at the comments! Pinback Jan 2022 #29
I wouldn't have to wear N95 masks... spinbaby Jan 2022 #27

ProfessorGAC

(65,040 posts)
1. His Science Is Essentially Sound
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 02:07 PM
Jan 2022

But, I hate the message.
First of all, the physics of filtration suggest cloth masks are not "useless". Less effective or efficient, & useless are VERY different things.
This messaging encourages the mask resisters who can point to an "expert" and say "See, I told you masks were useless."
A cloth mask is still better than no mask.
He also understates the natural static charge built up by ANY cloth. While the charge is less pronounced than an electret fiber, it still exists.
While encouraging better masks is a fine message, degrading the alternatives seems foolish.

Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #1)

ProfessorGAC

(65,040 posts)
7. I Just Double Up
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 02:21 PM
Jan 2022

It helps to minimize free flow path between strands & frays.
These particles aren't atomic in size. Anything that gets in their way is better than a 100% free flow path.
I do have a few surgical masks I put under cloth when I'm in the schools.

DeeNice

(575 posts)
5. Thank you. I just had a co-worker say yesterday that
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 02:15 PM
Jan 2022

"now they're saying masks don't work" and I told him that wasn't true and he backed down, muttering something about how he must be listening to the wrong stuff. I let it go but I so wanted to say yeah you are.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
6. Agreed
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 02:19 PM
Jan 2022

First not everyone can afford more than a cloth mask.
Second some are just barely willing to wear a cloth mask, they aren't going to get a different, more expensive mask.

So yeah obviously he's right, but the message should be cloth masks are better than no masks but if you want even better protection...

Pinback

(12,155 posts)
15. "...cloth masks are better than no masks but if you want even better protection..."
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 03:42 PM
Jan 2022

If you read the whole article, you'll see that that is the message. See post 13 in this thread.

Pinback

(12,155 posts)
25. "First not everyone can afford more than a cloth mask." See the site named in Post 11 in this thread
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 05:07 PM
Jan 2022

for links to several affordable sources of what appear to be good-quality face masks, some for less than $2 apiece (which is way less than what we paid for the attractive cloth masks that now lie abandoned on the desk in favor of NIOSH-approved N95s).

Still, those in extreme poverty will not be able to buy masks in bulk online, which is why it's encouraging to see some local health departments distributing good-quality masks for free, for example:


I hope we'll see more action on free mask distribution at all levels in the weeks to come.

Pinback

(12,155 posts)
8. Fair point. The disinformationists will seize on any tiny factoid out of context
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 02:22 PM
Jan 2022

to try to make their flimsy case.

Dr. Mike Osterholm of the University of Minnesota's CIDRAP has been beating the drum for good-quality masks for quite a while, as in this October 2021 commentary: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/10/commentary-what-can-masks-do-part-1-science-behind-covid-19-protection

He tends to express the message with perhaps more subtlety.

ProfessorGAC

(65,040 posts)
9. Still Have Issue With That
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 02:34 PM
Jan 2022

He & I might disagree (vehemently) on the definition of "very inefficient" having done significant work on the physics & physical chemistry of filtration.
But, comparing a cloth mask to an N95 or a surgical mask leaves out an obvious 4th option. That would be NO MASK.
I still quibble with this messaging.

Pinback

(12,155 posts)
13. Neither of these sources suggests that a cloth mask is useless.
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 03:33 PM
Jan 2022

Last edited Thu Jan 6, 2022, 04:18 PM - Edit history (1)

In fact, in the NY Magazine article, Dr. Karan is quoted as saying, "In terms of cloth masks, I’d rather you wear something than nothing. But if you’re able to upgrade, that would be great."

And in Part 2 of the CIDRAP commentary (COMMENTARY: What can masks do? Part 2: What makes for a good mask study — and why most fail)*, the authors state "Again, at the outset, we underscore that we are not 'anti-mask.' Rather, we are in favor of wearing the most protective type of facepiece for the setting—such as a non-fit tested respirator when spending more than a few minutes in a crowded, indoor space—and only in combination with other interventions."

The message is essentially "If you're going to wear a mask to protect yourself and others from COVID-19, here is some guidance on mask quality to help you make the best choice."

* Direct link for those who don't like to click on hyperlinks:
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/10/commentary-what-can-masks-do-part-2-what-makes-good-mask-study-and-why-most

Pinback

(12,155 posts)
21. You stated, "A cloth mask is still better than no mask," true.
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 04:24 PM
Jan 2022

And you also stated:

First of all, the physics of filtration suggest cloth masks are not "useless". Less effective or efficient, & useless are VERY different things.
This messaging encourages the mask resisters who can point to an "expert" and say "See, I told you masks were useless."

Also true! See, we're agreeing!

So perhaps the title of my reply should have been "Neither of these sources suggests that a cloth mask is useless," not "Neither of these sources suggests that a cloth mask equals no mask." In fact, to show what a good guy I am, I've just made that edit. Have a good day.

ProudMNDemocrat

(16,785 posts)
2. I have made some new masks with Pellon interfacing.
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 02:12 PM
Jan 2022

Used by seamstresses to add stiffness to light-weight fabrics. The same used in making surgical masks, but the non adhesive type.

I put a layer of medium weight ( shirt tailor weight)Pellon interfacing that has an adhesive to a layer of fabric and iron it on the wrong side, then proceed to making the mask. There is an added layer of protection.

Just came back from shoveling the driveway for 90 minutes, wearing one of them snd my face stayed warm in sub zero temperatures.

dflprincess

(28,075 posts)
28. I wear masks with two layers of cloth
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 05:23 PM
Jan 2022

and a layer of polypropylene in the middle and they fit snugly.

I get them from a local guy who makes them.

MissB

(15,807 posts)
14. We wear kn95s
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 03:41 PM
Jan 2022

I do have some n95s but they are the ones with valves. My son wears one of those and a kn95 over it.

I’m still only wearing the kn95s since I’m never anywhere for a long time. I work from home, I’m doing curbside pickup. If I had to be in contact with folks for any period of time I’d change to an n95 with a surgical mask on top.

My husband finally switched to a kn95 last week. I’d tried but hadn’t been able to get him to switch; our son finally convinced him.

I was supposed to take a pup for an annual vaccination this morning but the vet called out sick. I’d already committed to paying an extra $20 for curbside drop off/pick up because there was no way I was going into a small room with someone not of my household. Our cases have skyrocketed.

Pinback

(12,155 posts)
24. Yeah, we've upped our game here as well.
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 05:03 PM
Jan 2022

One of my adult kids was getting by with a gaiter for a long time until we finally convinced him to start wearing N95s.

luv2fly

(2,475 posts)
17. I don't go many places
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 03:53 PM
Jan 2022

But when I do, cloth masks still seem to prevail here in southern WI, if people are even wearing them at all.

It's ugly out there.

Ms. Toad

(34,070 posts)
20. Cloth masks ar not all equal.
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 04:13 PM
Jan 2022

Well-fitted 600 TPI cotton filter as well as K/N 95 masks when new (95-98%). Two-layer quilter's cotton (fewer than 600 TPI) with a third layer of a different fabric like silk also work as well as K/N 95 masks.

Both cloth and disposable masis degrade over time. K/N95 drop to around 85% after about 30 hours. Cloth masks degrade with washing (think lint on the lint filter), but the speed of degradation is more is more variable with cloth.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252 (Table 1, middle of the page for 600 TPI; Hybrid 2 (3 lines p from the bottom); cf N95 with no gap (top line) for particles >300nm (the size at which filtration is measured)

Fit and filtration are key. Surgical mask - in general - do not fit. Air takes the path of least resistance - so if you have gaps, regardless of filtration level, it's a bad mask. Surgical masks with a gap filter 44% of particles of the applicable size - and I have not yet seen a surgical mask that does not gap.

Pinback

(12,155 posts)
22. Good info, thanks.
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 04:35 PM
Jan 2022

As you say, "Fit and filtration are key." This is really the whole ball game. Many of the masks people wear are basically ceremonial in nature, or designed to comply with the letter (but not the spirit) of a civic or business requirement, rather than to actually minimize virus spread.

And, obviously, if you're far away from other people and outdoors or in a well-ventilated indoor area, you may be at less risk and can therefore get by with a less efficient mask. At our house, we're triple vaccinated and using N95s whenever we go to a store, post office, etc. And we're not socializing until "the scene is clean," to borrow the title of a Tadd Dameron jazz composition.

Ms. Toad

(34,070 posts)
32. We're using KN94 masks now -
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 06:36 PM
Jan 2022

with a design that mimics the cloth masks which fit really well.

Mostly my cloth masks have been washed a lot - and the cloth masks largely work by the size of the holes which grow with washing. I don't have time to make new ones at the moment. (The 3-layers with a different middle layer work more similarly to the disposable ones - electrostatically.

I'll revert to my cloth masks once omicron dies down and/or I have time to make some new ones.

Pinback

(12,155 posts)
29. LOL, I hadn't even looked at the comments!
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 05:26 PM
Jan 2022

Looks like the Freedumb Caucus remains unconvinced -- who'd a thunk? Why are so many of these idiots swarming the NY Magazine site? Looks like there are no restrictions on commenting (except "signing up" with Facebook, Google, or an email address), so of course they get comment-bombed by the lowest common denominator.

It was worth slogging through the muck, though, to get to this comment from "mary.drw":

Thanks so much for the update! I'm using better masks now. But how did you know I keep my cloth masks in my underwear drawer?

spinbaby

(15,090 posts)
27. I wouldn't have to wear N95 masks...
Thu Jan 6, 2022, 05:15 PM
Jan 2022

…if I could get the rest of my community to wear masks at all.

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