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Sat Mar 2, 2019, 08:31 AM

Top Foreign Affairs Dem rebukes Ilhan Omar for 'vile anti-Semitic slur'

Source: Politico

Rep. Ilhan Omar is drawing criticism again for comments about Israel — this time suggesting that pro-Israel activists and lawmakers hold “allegiance to a foreign country.”

In a lengthy and blistering rebuke late Friday, Rep. Eliot Engel, the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said Omar’s remarks amounted to a “vile anti-Semitic slur” and called on the Minnesota Democrat to apologize“

I welcome debate in Congress based on the merits of policy, but it’s unacceptable and deeply offensive to call into question the loyalty of fellow American citizens because of their political views, including support for the U.S.-Israel relationship,” said Engel (D-N.Y.), who is Jewish. “Her comments were outrageous and deeply hurtful, and I ask that she retract them, apologize, and commit to making her case on policy issues without resorting to attacks that have no place in the Foreign Affairs Committee or the House of Representatives."

A spokesman for Omar did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Read more: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/03/01/ilhan-omar-anti-semitic-slur-1199495

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Reply Top Foreign Affairs Dem rebukes Ilhan Omar for 'vile anti-Semitic slur' (Original post)
Jose Garcia Mar 2019 OP
watoos Mar 2019 #1
FreepFryer Mar 2019 #2
yerop Mar 2019 #13
paleotn Mar 2019 #25
DallasNE Mar 2019 #67
atreides1 Mar 2019 #31
brooklynite Mar 2019 #104
elleng Mar 2019 #45
reggaehead Mar 2019 #121
Chemisse Mar 2019 #3
FreepFryer Mar 2019 #4
The Liberal Lion Mar 2019 #33
Chemisse Mar 2019 #40
The Liberal Lion Mar 2019 #42
leftynyc Mar 2019 #87
watoos Mar 2019 #5
Evolve Dammit Mar 2019 #37
PatSeg Mar 2019 #47
McKim Mar 2019 #6
leftynyc Mar 2019 #88
Ghost Dog Mar 2019 #124
leftynyc Mar 2019 #126
ck4829 Mar 2019 #7
ck4829 Mar 2019 #12
George II Mar 2019 #14
ck4829 Mar 2019 #15
George II Mar 2019 #18
ck4829 Mar 2019 #20
former9thward Mar 2019 #60
ck4829 Mar 2019 #68
NRaleighLiberal Mar 2019 #8
Name removed Mar 2019 #9
padah513 Mar 2019 #39
Mosby Mar 2019 #51
nycbos Mar 2019 #10
allgood33 Mar 2019 #59
leftynyc Mar 2019 #89
ripcord Mar 2019 #108
MrScorpio Mar 2019 #11
George II Mar 2019 #16
MrScorpio Mar 2019 #21
forklift Mar 2019 #75
MrScorpio Mar 2019 #83
forklift Mar 2019 #84
ripcord Mar 2019 #114
MrScorpio Mar 2019 #115
marble falls Mar 2019 #23
mountain grammy Mar 2019 #17
PatSeg Mar 2019 #19
jrthin Mar 2019 #28
Lonestarblue Mar 2019 #35
PatSeg Mar 2019 #43
Power 2 the People Mar 2019 #46
FreepFryer Mar 2019 #44
watoos Mar 2019 #49
stuffmatters Mar 2019 #52
leftynyc Mar 2019 #90
PatSeg Mar 2019 #98
leftynyc Mar 2019 #99
PatSeg Mar 2019 #100
leftynyc Mar 2019 #102
marble falls Mar 2019 #22
paleotn Mar 2019 #24
LuvLoogie Mar 2019 #26
lancelyons Mar 2019 #27
Owl Mar 2019 #29
ck4829 Mar 2019 #30
EllieBC Mar 2019 #63
Jedi Guy Mar 2019 #65
leftynyc Mar 2019 #93
Scruffy1 Mar 2019 #96
leftynyc Mar 2019 #97
Jedi Guy Mar 2019 #101
Behind the Aegis Mar 2019 #70
ck4829 Mar 2019 #71
Behind the Aegis Mar 2019 #72
ck4829 Mar 2019 #74
Behind the Aegis Mar 2019 #76
ck4829 Mar 2019 #78
Behind the Aegis Mar 2019 #79
ck4829 Mar 2019 #80
Behind the Aegis Mar 2019 #81
ck4829 Mar 2019 #82
EllieBC Mar 2019 #85
ck4829 Mar 2019 #86
leftynyc Mar 2019 #92
lancelyons Mar 2019 #113
leftynyc Mar 2019 #91
Post removed Mar 2019 #127
leftynyc Mar 2019 #129
George II Mar 2019 #130
mn9driver Mar 2019 #32
forklift Mar 2019 #77
The Liberal Lion Mar 2019 #34
Mosby Mar 2019 #53
leftynyc Mar 2019 #94
MicaelS Mar 2019 #36
former9thward Mar 2019 #61
Liberalhammer Mar 2019 #38
Mosby Mar 2019 #41
Izzy Blue Mar 2019 #48
Mosby Mar 2019 #50
Izzy Blue Mar 2019 #119
DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #120
lapucelle Mar 2019 #139
lapucelle Mar 2019 #134
lapucelle Mar 2019 #135
DinahMoeHum Mar 2019 #54
Mosby Mar 2019 #56
DeminPennswoods Mar 2019 #69
leftynyc Mar 2019 #95
Izzy Blue Mar 2019 #118
leftynyc Mar 2019 #122
leftynyc Mar 2019 #123
Izzy Blue Mar 2019 #131
leftynyc Mar 2019 #132
lapucelle Mar 2019 #137
DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #125
lapucelle Mar 2019 #136
Devil Child Mar 2019 #55
Mosby Mar 2019 #58
Devil Child Mar 2019 #62
guillaumeb Mar 2019 #57
Devil Child Mar 2019 #64
guillaumeb Mar 2019 #117
DallasNE Mar 2019 #66
KayF Apr 2019 #144
forklift Mar 2019 #73
procon Mar 2019 #103
DavidDvorkin Mar 2019 #105
procon Mar 2019 #106
DavidDvorkin Mar 2019 #107
procon Mar 2019 #109
DavidDvorkin Mar 2019 #110
procon Mar 2019 #111
DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2019 #112
DavidDvorkin Mar 2019 #116
Blue_Tires Mar 2019 #128
ck4829 Apr 2019 #143
Izzy Blue Mar 2019 #133
lapucelle Mar 2019 #138
marble falls Mar 2019 #140
scipan Mar 2019 #141
ck4829 Apr 2019 #142

Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 08:40 AM

1. Just saying,

 

The only way we lose in 2020 is if we fight among ourselves.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 08:46 AM

2. Let's have a legitimate conversation about AIPAC's undue influence, rather than slurs.

Omar was way out of line, but she is using language that is constantly heard on the other side.

Engel could have pointed this out and shifted the issue to address the disproportionate power of AIPAC, but he focused on castigating Omar. I see that as a lost opportunity.

Nevertheless, Omar might want to put in some practice on her rhetorical self-restraint, because yikes.

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Response to FreepFryer (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:26 AM

13. They spend more on Dems than Repubs

 

and are way down at 50th in terms of lobbyist spending.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-the-pro-israel-lobby-just-criticized-by-ilhan-omar-stacks-up-against-other-washington-influencers-2019-02-11

I second your Yikes about Omar's statement.

?uuid=5a89e618-2e0e-11e9-82b3-ac162d7bc1f7

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Response to yerop (Reply #13)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:04 AM

25. Wonder what that chart would look like minus Sheldon Adelson?

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Response to paleotn (Reply #25)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 01:44 AM

67. Total Republican In 2016 Is Just Over $7 Million

So I doubt any of his direct money is showing. He could be giving some to organizations that are represented, however.

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Response to yerop (Reply #13)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:23 AM

31. Which Dems are getting the money?

And the ethnicity or religious belief of those receiving that money isn't important to me...I just would like to know which Democrats are receiving money from any and all PAC's!!!

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #31)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 01:12 PM

104. Have you researched the question?

The data is all available online.

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Response to FreepFryer (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 12:42 PM

45. I agree, and I hope both of them think about improving the conversation;

they surely have the wherewithal, being observant,caring, and intelligent.

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Response to FreepFryer (Reply #2)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 02:49 AM

121. Was she mistaken?

I don't think so. Israel must be brought to heel.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 08:49 AM

3. Worrisome.

Especially since this is the second time she has crossed the line in this same vein.

At the very least she needs to understand how to be diplomatic about her belief that the Israeli lobby is too strong. At the worst, she may indeed be antisemitic and following an agenda accordingly.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 08:57 AM

4. Agreed! Such slurs and language only give further cover to those to whose influence Omar objects. nt

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:35 AM

33. She's not anti-semetic

She's telling the truth. And what is happening is that those who benefit financially from the "pro-apartheidist state" aka Israel are being shamed for her truth telling.

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Response to The Liberal Lion (Reply #33)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 11:13 AM

40. As long as she attacks in this way it will be viewed as anti-semitic however.

And therefore not given credence.

I agree completely with her concerns, I just disagree with her approach, which seems self-destructive and, in the end, ineffective.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #40)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 11:25 AM

42. I understand your point. And I agree with you.

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Response to The Liberal Lion (Reply #33)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 07:40 AM

87. Accusing AMERICANS of dual loyalty

 

or even worse, loyalty to a foreign government over your own - is the height of anti-semitism. You can try and pretty it up and make excuses for it all you want but she's an anti-semite and proves it every time she opens her mouth about dual loyalty. Shame on you for defending her calling us traitors.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:00 AM

5. Israel's best interests aren't always our best,

 

Or should I say Bibi’s best interests.
I don’t like the pact that Israel has made with Saudi Arabia.

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Response to watoos (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:54 AM

37. Agree

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Response to watoos (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 01:51 PM

47. Hey the Saudis probably have more money

to spread around than the U.S. Just ask Jared Kushner!

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:09 AM

6. Dividing Democrats Not a Good Move

JRep. Engel needs to consider the long term best interests of our Democratic Party. Dividing us especially at this critical time is not a winning idea. We need to take a long look at this type of behavior and reject it. Who is he serving? Not the Democratic Party!

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Response to McKim (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 07:41 AM

88. Aim your ire at the congresswoman

 

who can't seem to open her mouth without charging American Jews of disloyalty. SHE is the one dividing us, not Engel.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #88)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 08:43 AM

124. Divided loyalties, potentially,

are what the congresswoman appears to suggest.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #124)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 09:17 AM

126. For the second time

 

She apologized after the first but doesn't seem to have learned a damn thing.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:09 AM

7. So when Trump says he gave Israel Jerusalem, how come nobody called that antisemitic?

He was expecting points with Jews here in the US, why?

Why did Republicans here in the US praise that action?

Was that antisemitism?

Maybe we should revisit that.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10142093165

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:34 AM

14. That has nothing to do with this (second) incident. Plus, trump isn't a Democrat.

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Response to George II (Reply #14)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:35 AM

15. Democrats can't criticize Trump?

I'm starting to think that if someone else (Someone white and non-Muslim) said this, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all... and I've demonstrated that fact.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100211880657

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:40 AM

18. No one said that. But you're using things that trump said to rationalize or justify what Omar said.

I'm sure over the last two years Representative Elliot has criticized trump a number of times. Now unfortunately he's been forced to criticize anti-Semitic talk from one of his own fellow Democrats on the committee he chairs.

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Response to George II (Reply #18)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:48 AM

20. Exactly. It's what's not said

I'm 100% certain that if Trump said the things Omar said and has said; nobody would say anything, nobody did say anything.

Nobody called it antisemitic then... no media, no politicians, no armchair pundits then.

I want to know why.

I think it's fair to point out the systemic racism (Which involves more than one person here so I am not mad at Rep Engel, a lot of this is subconscious) here... if a white Republican says this, he expects gratitude from Jewish people for something he did in a foreign country, people shrug. A Somali Muslim says something shocking about Israel, well that's why we're here.

Antisemitism is an old and dangerous thing, very old, I do know the word for this wasn't coined when Ilhan Omar became Representative.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 06:42 PM

60. He did not "give" Israel Jerusalem.

Jerusalem was the capital of Israel long before Trump and still is. He just recognized that fact as Congress has and has all Democratic presidents and candidates for president for decades.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #60)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 02:16 AM

68. So why did he measure Jewish support done in a foreign country again?

Nobody called *that* antisemitism.

Why are people avoiding talking about this?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211880657

I guess it's OK for a white Republican to go out to measure his points that he thought he scored with Jewish people because he did something in another country and then say they weren't grateful... actually sounds antisemitic to me, but hey, Trump's not a Somali Muslim woman in a hijab, so it must be OK for him to say it.

The word "antisemitism" has also been around for decades, it wasn't coined when Ilhan Omar became a Representative.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:13 AM

8. a big tent is good. a rumble in the big tent - unavoidable now and then, but...

not optimal when there is such a malevolent presence to unite against (the orange one)

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #9)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 11:13 AM

39. Stay

Your opinion counts as much as anyone else

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Response to padah513 (Reply #39)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 05:26 PM

51. he's dead, Jim.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:17 AM

10. AIPAC is a legitimate target for criticism.

But the duel loyalty trope has been used to target jews for centuries. During Nazi rule it was used to target jews because they were "secret communists." It was used in the Soviet Union to target jews because they were "secret capitalists."


The left has a BIG problem with antisemitism. I do not care if she is the first muslim women to serve in the house. This is unacceptable. If she has a primary challenger I will support him/her.

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Response to nycbos (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 06:22 PM

59. I agree.

 

Sometimes, the allegation of "anti-Semitism" is a method to cut off legitimate debate.

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Response to nycbos (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 07:43 AM

89. Same here

 

This one seems not able to open her mouth without saying something stupid and insulting.

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Response to nycbos (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 03:25 PM

108. Don't forget idual loyalties was used as an excuse to imprison Japanese Americans during WW2

Republicans accused Catholic presidential candidate JFK of dual loyalties to the US and the Vatican but still some people either don't get or don't care why something like that can be considered offensive, it is really sad.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:25 AM

11. The same Engel who got $150,000 in pro-Israel industry campaigns donations last year?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #11)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:36 AM

16. What are you insinuating?

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Response to George II (Reply #16)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:53 AM

21. I'm insinuating that Engel knows exactly what side of his bread is buttered...

That someone who gets thousands of dollars in campaign donations from pro-Israel groups would do everything that he could to keep that spigot flowing.

This is way more about money than it is about anything else.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #21)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 03:33 AM

75. That is an asinine leap

 

Rep. Omar probably received money from a lot of Islamic groups .... using that to conclude that she will support terrorism would be an asinine leap .... wouldn't everyone agree?

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Response to forklift (Reply #75)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 07:25 AM

83. Actually, your own assertion fits the very definition of an asinine leap...

Especially since the "Islamic groups" who make up her top contributors are organizations like Emily's List, Move-On and End Citizens United.

All of them bent on taking down the State of Israel, I'm sure.

https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/summary?cid=N00043581&cycle=2018

But she makes an excellent point, in that too much money is affecting our politics... And Washington is freaking out about. That's because that's ALL Washington has been all about for very interested parties over the years. From her fresh perspective, she can see it all very clearly.

It's just that simple.

When a pro-Israel lobbying group like NORPAC, the same group who wrote this love letter to Donald Trump and Jared Kushner over the highly controversial and inciting move of the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (http://norpac.net/blog/norpac-statement-on-the-jerusalem-u-s-embassy-announcement), ends up being one of Rep. Engel's top contributors, I'm sure that all of can see that it makes Rep. Omar's point very clearly indeed.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #83)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 09:20 AM

84. I'm afraid you misconstrued my post.

 

I was posing a hypothetical.

It is not unusual that a Jewish candidate will have Jewish contributors and a Muslim candidate would have Muslim contributors. It means nothing.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #21)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 07:51 PM

114. So are you saying that all politicians are owned by the people who donate to them

Or is it just the Jews?

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Response to ripcord (Reply #114)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 08:04 PM

115. It's a general condition.

In the most general way possible.

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Response to George II (Reply #16)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:00 AM

23. Nothing wrong with pointing out conveniently forgotten details. Sunlight is good for everyone.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #11)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:39 AM

17. The very same. Under the influence..

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:47 AM

19. You know what I find offensive?

When Netanyahu says, "I have the United States wrapped around my finger", and then insults and disrespects our leaders. He snubbed our president in 2015 and spoke before our congress opposing Obama's policies. He repeatedly undermined our Democratic administration, all while taking our money and protection.

One can be anti Netanyahu and his right-wing government, while still being pro Israel and its people. I am sure there are people in Europe who feel similarly about Trump - hate the leader, but still support the American people.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #19)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:09 AM

28. +1000

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #19)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:46 AM

35. So true!

Any criticism of Bibi and his government’s actions has been turned into antisemitism when it clearly is not. The Israeli government has committed atrocities and illegally taken Palestinian land for settlements, actions that should be criticized. That criticism has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with government choices.

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Response to Lonestarblue (Reply #35)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 12:11 PM

43. Agreed

And Netanyahu will be quick to label any criticism as "antisemitism" and sit back and watch while U.S. politicians frantically walk back any legitimate slight to his right-wing corrupt government.

Can you imagine if an American president went to Israel, without invitation from the Prime Minister, and spoke to the Israeli legislature criticizing their leader? Netanyahu pushed his luck time and time again, hopefully his luck is finally running out. His outrageous arrogance will undoubtedly be in downfall.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #43)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 12:52 PM

46. +1000

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #19)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 12:26 PM

44. THIS. (n/t)

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #19)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 04:41 PM

49. Bravo, well said.

 

I hate Trump, does that make me anti-American?

A lot of people in Israel don't like Bibi. does that make them anti-Semitic?

I don't like Bibi, but I am pro Israel. I'm anti that pact that Bibi has with Saudi Arabia.

Give me a few thousand dollars and I may write a pro Bibi article.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #19)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 05:28 PM

52. this

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 07:46 AM

90. What the fuck does

 

that have to do with an American congresswoman accusing her fellow Americans of disloyalty? Defending this woman by deflecting to bibi is nothing but bullshit.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #90)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 09:12 AM

98. Accusing fellow Americans of disloyality

may be tactless, but it is not anti-Semitic. I think we have quite a few politicians who have catered to foreign powers for money, power, and political advantage. There's one in the White House right now. But if that foreign power happens to be Netanyahu, then it is anti-Semitic?

I think the congresswoman made a freshman mistake and did not use the tact and diplomacy necessary in congress, but that doesn't mean she wasn't telling a truth that pretty much everyone in DC knows.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #98)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 09:45 AM

99. It IS anti-semitic and this

 

has been explained over and over again. Jews been accused of disloyalty to their country has been going on for centuries. I trash bibi all the time and I manage to do it without accusing Americans of disloyalty so pretending this can't happen is nonsense.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #99)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 10:23 AM

100. No, the people who are being accused of disloyalty

are unprincipled, even corrupt politicians and most of them are NOT Jewish. If a politician caters to the Saudi royal family, is criticizing them for it anti Muslim?

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #100)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 11:17 AM

102. No, it's not and that's the point

 

If she could manage to trash bibi or Israeli policies without charging AMERICANS - ANY AMERICANS - of disloyalty, she wouldn't be having these problems. But she hasn't been able to manage to do that even after apologizing for it once already.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 09:55 AM

22. The GOP will never, ever beat us. Be we just might.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:02 AM

24. Can't we all get along?...

Don't get me wrong. I love our new crop of Dems, but some need to learn the art of political speak. Some would call it being mealy mouthed, but it's saved immeasurable misunderstandings and embarrassment for quite some time. It's the rough, second cousin to diplomatic speak.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:07 AM

26. Ms. Omar probably could have said "undue influence" rather than allegiance, but

Mr. Engel might be over-reacting just a bit.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:08 AM

27. Folks from Israel have become way to sensitive.

 

It is perfectly legit to call out bad behavior by Israel and their pathetic criminal leader Netanyahu. It ok to say that some Americans have allegiance to foreign countries. It’s true. It is not saying anything about Jewish people or their religion. Stop with the bs about this being anti Semitic.

All this is is racism against Muslims.

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:14 AM

29. +1

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:15 AM

30. Thank you

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:22 PM

63. So Jews are being sentisitve but

being upset is racism against Muslims. Ok.

I forgot. Jews need to shut up and not say a word when accused of things like dual loyalties.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #63)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 11:10 PM

65. Funny how that works, isn't it?

If that remark had caused any other minority group to take offense, I very much doubt that it would be described as an "overreaction." I also doubt that people would be telling them why they shouldn't be offended and explaining it all away.

This is the second time Rep. Omar has opened her mouth and stuck her foot right in there. Her heart is in the right place, but she could definitely benefit from choosing her words more carefully.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #65)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 07:50 AM

93. How do you know her

 

heart is in the right place? This is the second time she's made this disgusting accusation. Just how many times should I give her to get it right?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #93)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 08:15 AM

96. She's my congresswoman.

Her ditrict has a large number of Palestinian immigrants and she is learning the hard way that Israel is the third rail of American politics. It is a problem that has gone on for generations and seems to be insoluble. To me, it's complete nonsense to conflate any criticism of Israel's policies with anti semitism, but it is dead certain that you will be pilloried if you speak up. Of course, all these people complaining probably don't live in her district, which is 64% white and about 20% African American. She got 78% of the vote. I have no numbers on it, but all of my Jewish friends voted for her. I'm considered Jewish by a lot of people even though I take no part in any organized religion and don't really identify myself that way. I'm very proud of her and she is probably saying what a lot of people in Congress would say if they were from very safe districts like hers.

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Response to Scruffy1 (Reply #96)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 08:30 AM

97. Just stop it

 

This has NOTHING to do with criticizing Israel. NOTHING. She's accusing AMERICANS of disloyalty to our country and accusing them of loyalty to Israel. That's an age-old canard about Jews who have been accused of dual loyalty for centuries and has NOTHING to do with Israel AT ALL.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #93)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 11:13 AM

101. Okay, that's a fair point.

Let's say that I'd like to believe that her heart is in the right place. I'll grant you that it gets harder to believe that when she keeps making statements like this.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #63)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 03:00 AM

70. Nailed it.

Anytime anti-Semitism is the topic we are told to "shut up", "get over it", give people passes because they aren't "big names (Farrakhan) with any real power", and there is always the ever-present "whataboutism", usually it is Israel, but in this thread, it is the pResident and his "alleged" anti-Semitism and how it wasn't addressed in a way that was acceptable.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #70)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 03:12 AM

71. Because it wasn't acceptable

If Rep. Ilhan Omar spoke like how Trump and Huckabee talked in their interview, there probably would have been calls to physically remove her from Congress, if not the country.

But hey, they aren't Somali Muslims, so it's all good apparently.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211880657

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #71)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 03:19 AM

72. But hey, discussing anti-Semitism is no fun when you can "whataboutit" with something else.

But, hey, anti-Semitism needs more non-Jews to define it for us and tell us when and how we should respond.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #72)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 03:33 AM

74. So we're not supposed to notice or remember the response to one group vs another?

Two people get a shrug and definitely not called antisemitic, but one person (Somali Muslim) gets a rebuke.

Why?

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #74)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 03:35 AM

76. So we are not supposed to discuss anti-Semitism when it comes from our own side?

Are we supposed to pretend that anti-Semitism is not often called out on the other side?


Do you know what anti-Semitism is? More to the point, do you care?

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #76)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 03:52 AM

78. I don't know if it would even be called anti-Semitism if was said by someone else

It's quickly becoming more overt that there is a cognitive shortcut of "Ilhan Omar said X, it is offensive and she's a horrible person!", with X being if anyone else said it (Especially if that anyone was less Muslim and less Somali), it wouldn't merit the same response.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #78)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 04:08 AM

79. So you don't know what it is.

That clears up quite a bit. It is clear that anti-Semitism is conditional for your condemnation. I appreciate the clarification.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #79)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 05:38 AM

80. And thank you for your clarification of not recognizing systemic racism

I appreciate knowing that this cognitive shortcut is pretty much confirmed. Just curious, since the bar for when something does become anti-Semitism is indeed so much lower for Somali Americans than it is for white Americans, is it higher or lower for other ethnic groups?

As someone interested in sociology, some sort of scale would be invaluable.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #80)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 05:55 AM

81. The clarification of the disinterest in anti-Semitism has been eye opening.

Just curious, is anti-Semitism less offensive (or not even anti-Semitism) when it isn't a RW asshole making the comment? Or is anti-Semitism just redefined when it suits the needs of the person making the comments and their defenders?

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #81)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 06:08 AM

82. Likewise

A Somali American wouldn't even be allowed to come close to saying the things white Americans have said about "globalists", "cultural Marxists", "George Soros", etc. in the past year alone anywhere, on any platform. They would have been run out of town.

That's crystal clear.

And I'm sorry, I find disparities disgusting, it's a major basis for my political philosophy. Ilhan Omar said something shocking? OK. Let's have some consistency, let's not treat her differently than anyone else. The bar shouldn't be different just because her color or religion is different from the majority.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #82)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 01:07 PM

85. Dual loyalty accusations aren't shocking.

It's a rather old canard thrown out by antisemites.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #85)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 03:03 PM

86. So it's just interesting

I feel as though this has been said before, because it has. This conversation, had Ilhan Omar said something along these lines, would have gotten her destroyed.

Sorry, but I can't shake the perception that this conversation is only happening because Ilhan Omar said this and had it been someone else, it would be politics as usual, also a rather old thing... no outrage, no bipartisan rebukes, no calling it antisemitism, no nothing.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #63)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 07:49 AM

92. +1000

 

This is getting fucking sickening. I have to listen to people from my own party accuse me of disloyalty and right here on this board I'm finding defense of that. I will NOT shut up about it.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #63)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 07:32 PM

113. no being upset is not racism against muslims

 

However, having posters made of Omar under the twin towers falling down in 911, constantly calling Omar out for her statements that are NOT antisemitic... have a tone of being negative on her with a hint of her religion / race mixed in.

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #27)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 07:47 AM

91. SHE is accusing us of disloyalty to our country

 

and YOU are finding excuses for it. That's disgusting.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #91)


Response to Post removed (Reply #127)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 10:18 AM

129. WTF are you babbling about?

 

Are you seriously accusing all Jewish members of congress of being guilty of espionage? Because that's what pollard was tried and convicted of. There are currently 17 Muslims members of the Knesset (81 have or are currently serving). Now you list all the blacks that served under the apartheid South African government. Let's compare and then you can stop using words you clearly don't know the meaning of.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #127)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 01:07 PM

130. Instead of just invoking Jonathan Pollard's name, why not tell us who he really was?

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:29 AM

32. Engel's outrage would be more convincing if his campaign didn't take quite so much pro Israel money.

And I am not attacking a Democrat. That is what he is doing. Omar is my congresswoman. I voted for her and none of this will keep me from voting for her again.

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Response to mn9driver (Reply #32)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 03:38 AM

77. If my congressperson said that

 

they would get a call from me expressing displeasure. It simply was not ok.

If she had made that comment on DU, it would have been hidden pronto.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:46 AM

34. Once again Rep Omar is correct. This time I hope she does not apologize.

The government under Netanyahu is no friend to the US. Those who are swayed by the shekels to vote in our halls of government in support of the pro-segregationist policies of Israel are as well no friend of the US. I give no double meaning here. I'll say it clearly, as Israel is currently governed it is no friend to the US, and the influence that the pro-Israel (read pro-Netanyahu) lobby has on our government is wholly disturbing and is not in interest of the people of the United States. Once again Rep. Omar is completely correct in her analysis of our elected officials relationship with the Israeli government.

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Response to The Liberal Lion (Reply #34)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 05:29 PM

53. how is Israel "pro-segragationist"?

Care to explain?

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Response to The Liberal Lion (Reply #34)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 07:54 AM

94. This has NOTHING to do with bibi

 

who I loathe. She is accusing American Jews of disloyalty and because you don't like bibi, you're pretending it about something else. She is NOT correct and the defense I'm seeing from my own party on her disgusting accusations is very disturbing.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:50 AM

36. How many other countries have groups of Americans..

And American politicians that constantly lobby for said countries?

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #36)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 06:51 PM

61. Since you asked...

Here is the list by Department of Justice as of today (3/2/2019) covering almost every country in the world. 670 American groups are registered as lobbyists for these countries.

https://efile.fara.gov/pls/apex/f?p=185:130:0::NO:RP,130130_DATERANGE:N

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 11:08 AM

38. A lobby for a foreign nation is for that nations best interests

 

Not the US.

Regardless of what nation be it Saudi Arabia or Israel.

I think that lobbies for forging nations and money from them should be illegal in all their forms.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 11:21 AM

41. It's facinating how a little country of 8.2 million gets so much attention

From politicians, the UN, media and discussion boards like DU.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 04:27 PM

48. Eliot Engle holds a duel US/Israel citizenship

 

Prominent Democrats Form Pro-Israel Group to Counter Skepticism on the Left


By Jonathan Martin

Jan. 28, 2019

"WASHINGTON — Several prominent veteran Democrats, alarmed by the party’s drift from its longstanding alignment with Israel, are starting a new political group that will try to counter the rising skepticism on the left toward the Jewish state by supporting lawmakers and candidates in 2020 who stand unwaveringly with the country.

With polls showing that liberals and younger voters are increasingly less sympathetic to Israel, and a handful of vocal supporters of Palestinian rights arriving in Congress, the new group — the Democratic Majority for Israel — is planning to wage a campaign to remind elected officials about what they call the party’s shared values and interests with one of America’s strongest allies.

“Most Democrats are strongly pro-Israel and we want to keep it that way,” said Mark Mellman, the group’s president and a longtime Democratic pollster. “There are a few discordant voices, but we want to make sure that what’s a very small problem doesn’t metastasize into a bigger problem.”

more
http://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/us/politics/democrats-israel-palestine.html

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #48)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 05:25 PM

50. Eliot Engle is not an Israeli citizen.

Could you post a link to the website where you read that?

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #119)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 12:34 AM

120. Can you please cite a reliable original source?

They all go back to the same list.

Thank you in advance.



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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #120)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 10:29 PM

139. The same source has "Billary Clinton" murder conspiracy stories.

Billary Clinton Body Count: Five Untimely Deaths of People Who Jeopardized Her Campaign WikiLeaks Offers 25K for Information

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #119)


Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #119)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 09:52 PM

135. Your link goes to a right wing website that has a "Billary Clinton" tab and the story

"More People Killed by Hillary Clinton than by Sharks in the Last 25 Years"

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #48)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 05:34 PM

54. There is a comment to the NYT article well worth pondering. . .

(boldface emphasis is mine - DMH)

Please don't do this. I'm Jewish and finally hopeful that the Democratic Party will leave the AIPAC guys be the albatross of the GOP
You can't resolve democracy and liberal values with political zionism. Please do not take my religious /ethnic identity and muck it up with AIPAC nationalism. We finally are getting somewhere. Don't blow it!

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Response to DinahMoeHum (Reply #54)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 05:57 PM

56. Israel is both democratic and Liberal

More liberal than the US in fact, because of Zionism.

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #48)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 02:22 AM

69. We often forget that

Israel, like every country, has its own national intrests. While there is much alignment between US and Israeli national interests, it isn't total. It behooves Americans to recognize that sometimes US national interest conflicts with Israeli national interest. Our policy toward Israel should not be blind loyalty to whatever they do, it should be doing what is in America's best interest when those interests diverge.

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #48)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 07:57 AM

95. Really? Where did you hear Rep Engel's is a dual citizen?

 

That's a very serious charge so I'm asking you to back it up. Can you?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #95)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 08:59 PM

118. If it's such a serious charge I'm surprised you didn't look it up first.

 


"List of US Politicians Who Hold Israeli Citizenship. Netanyahu himself is a U.S. Citizen

Posted on Thursday, 5th March 2015


https://hpub.org/2015/03/05/list-of-us-politicians-who-hold-israeli-citizenship-netanyahu-himself-is-a-u-s-citizen/uncategorized/admin/

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #118)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 05:19 AM

122. LOL

 

That s just a list of Jews. Where are the citizenship papers, passports, voting records? I know of one, my representative Nita Lowey is definitely not an Israeli citizen so why should I believe any of them? Just because Jews are entitled to Israeli citizenship doesn't mean they are. I want PROOF, not just a nazi like list of Jews. I'm entitled to Israeli citizenship but I'm not an Israeli citizen. Where is PROOF?

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #118)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 07:25 AM

123. By the way

 

I most certainly DID look it up and found nothing but lists of Jews in congress - no PROOF. Take a look at this and stop posting lists of names of Jews assuming they have citizenship with ZERO PROOF

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/06/11/the-strange-anti-semitic-internet-rumor-that-bernie-sanders-has-israeli-citizenship/?utm_term=.c4a63105ae39


Politifact calls it PANTS ON FIRE LIE

https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/statements/2019/feb/25/blog-posting/no-members-congress-dont-have-dual-citizenship-isr/

If you have an actual PROOF, time to serve it up.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #123)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 04:45 PM

131. I stand corrected on posting a "zero proof " list

 

Yet the issue is not resolved and until it is we don't know what politicians may hold duel citizenship with Israel
Are you claiming that currently none do?
And if you are how do you know this?.

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #131)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 04:49 PM

132. Because if they did

 

Anti-semites on both sides of the aisle would have found the evidence. That bogus list was all over facebook (which I'm not on but was told about) all last weekend but it's a charge that has come up over and over and there has NEVER been one shred of evidence. Not one shred.

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #131)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 10:08 PM

137. Why did you link to a conspiracy website?

From your link:

More People Killed by Hillary Clinton Than by Sharks in the Last 25 Years

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #118)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 09:07 AM

125. That list is risible.

According to that list I have duel citizenship and I have never been to Israel and the last time I was in a synagogue the Beatles were still together.

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #118)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 10:05 PM

136. "More People Killed by Hillary Clinton Than by Sharks in the Last 25 Years" is another story

at your link.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 05:34 PM

55. The undue influence of ALL foreign powers on our domestics affairs needs calling out

 

I respect Rep. Omar acknowledging quite a large elephant in the room.

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #55)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 06:02 PM

58. The oil lobby (eg API) is vastly more powerful than AIPAC

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Response to Mosby (Reply #58)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 06:56 PM

62. An informative link, thank you Mosby.

 

My sentiment and disdain extends to the collective oil industry's lobbying.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #57)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:44 PM

64. Thanks for the link guillaumeb

 

Helpful information to explain Rep. Engel's response.

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #64)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 08:36 PM

117. One possible reason.

You are welcome.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 01:31 AM

66. There Are No Winners In This Exchange

Representative Omar does need to work on her framing but she is also has a point though it is not well articulated. Representative Engel needs to tone down his framing of Omar's statement as being "vile" and trotting out the anti-Semitic charge at every opportunity.

If Engel wants to talk about policy, let's have that debate and it starts with Israel's decades long settlement policy that is completely indefensible. Why not meet that with a sharp cutback in aide to Israel and even sanctions on the now corrupt leaders responsible for that policy. Yes, Israel is entitled to secure borders but the settlement policy is not a security issue - it is a land grab. But the political reality is that that is not going to change anytime soon. The corrupting influence of the money pipeline assures that. And right now the money is not on the side of Representative Omar. And, as we know, money drives policy - isn't that the point Omar is making in her own way. She just has to find a better way to express it.

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #66)

Sat Apr 6, 2019, 07:02 PM

144. I agree about toning it down

"vile" is an extremely strong word and imho totally out of line. Doesn't the House have rules against this kind of invective?

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2019, 03:27 AM

73. If she is not made to have discipline

 

I am afraid we will lose 2-5% of the Jewish vote in several key states.

We should not condone such comments. Criticism of specific policies or actions by Israel is fine but painting with a broad brush is never ok.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 11:37 AM

103. More people should be speaking out against

the paid influence and meddling of any foreign country in US politics. Ban all foreign obbying efforts and prohibit any bribes to politicians.

Her point is valid, but rather than address the issue, all the usual pro-israel champions are focusing on the semantics rather than the corrupting influence of foreign interests on our government.

The whole system is corrupt and smacks of quid pro quo, promoting the interests of foreign states over US interests and pilfering the taxpayers money to prop up influential foreign governments.

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Response to procon (Reply #103)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 02:18 PM

105. Semantics?

I'm no pro-Israel champion, but I do react angrily to antisemitic dog whistles.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #105)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 02:49 PM

106. Really? Which part of "semantics" makes you angry?

se·man·tics

/səˈman(t)iks/
noun

the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning... which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning... the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text.



Hint: semantics is not the same as Semitic, which identifies with a group of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain peoples who speak Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic.

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Response to procon (Reply #106)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 03:04 PM

107. As commonly used, it's a way to dismiss concerns about a statement

As I'm sure you know.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #107)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 03:28 PM

109. I'm trying to grasp what you're saying

but without a clear reference point I can only guess. If not Semitic then it must be semantics, and what I think you are trying to say (and I could be wrong) appears to be the same criticism that I made, that by focusing only on the semantics, "... It's a way to dismiss concerns about a statement."

So everyone queues up to declare that they oppose anti semitism because the word "Israel" was written in a post, and totally ignores the corruption of foreign money on US politics. While I don't know for sure that's actually your intended meaning, blame it on semantics, that is my best interpretation

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Response to procon (Reply #109)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 03:47 PM

110. By talking about semantics, you belitteld and dismissed my criticism

I'm sure you understand that perfect well, and now you're being disingenuous. I won't bother replying further.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #110)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 04:10 PM

111. Thank you for making your views clear.

Although, I am somewhat amused by your psychological evaluation of my sinister character and dastardly intent, usually it takes several posts before my demonic proclivities are discovered.

Still, it takes an enormous amount of mental effort to perform the internet's version of a triple Axel jump... Great recovery! An 8, for sure, but there's so much more to learn. Please don't retire from the field on my account, or just as you learned what semantic means. LOL My bad... I doubt the ironic humor was your first objective.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 04:22 PM

112. Accusing Jews of dual loyalty is never a good look. It never ends well.

I hope it's a problem of the head and not of the heart. If it's the latter I am profoundly sad. If it's the former there's hope.


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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #112)

Mon Mar 4, 2019, 08:30 PM

116. Except on DU, where it's apparently just fine.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 10:01 AM

128. Yep, eating our own right on schedule

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #128)

Sat Apr 6, 2019, 06:59 PM

143. Yep

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 05:01 PM

133. Is there a law

 

that makes it illegal for an American politician to hold dual citizenship with Israel?
If not and it is legal and politicians aren't required to inform their constitutes therefore we would rely on them volunteering the information does raise many concerns.

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #133)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 10:15 PM

138. Your link says that "More People Were Killed by Hillary Clinton Than by Sharks in the Past 25 Years"

It also has this "story" under the "Billary Clinton" tab:

Doubt Surfaces About ‘Suicide’ Claim of Clinton Investigator

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Response to Izzy Blue (Reply #133)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 08:54 AM

140. What a dumb question. My step-son has triple citizenship - US, GB, and France ...

Mom is US, Dad is GB and James was born in France.

The only aspect of anyone's citizenship that is any bit of your business is does a candidate meet the requirement to run for the office.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 04:48 PM

141. She was implying that members of the Foreign Affairs Cmte

show loyalty to Israel, not Jews per se.

There are only 8 Jewish members of that 47 member committee, 7 dems and 1 repub.

source: https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/jewish-dems-not-concerned-over-ilhan-omar-s-membership-on-foreign-affairs-committee-1.6870433

This is not antisemitic because she is mostly criticizing non-jews. Or perhaps she is criticizing Pelosi, who appointed her, and I don't think Pelosi is Jewish.

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Sat Apr 6, 2019, 05:11 PM

142. Kick

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