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Miigwech

(3,741 posts)
Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:59 AM Oct 2020

In defense of Jeffrey Toobin !!!! [View all]

How many times a day does a man masturbate? So what! His only crime was he didn't know how to use Zoom correctly. So have your giggles puritanical America. I remember when our first Black woman Surgeon General, M. Joycelyn Elders, was fired because she suggested that young girls learn about masturbation in sex ed .... because she made too much GD sense for the RW fundies ... maybe someone should have asked amy con-me BARRett if she agreed wit scalia on masturbation? So maybe masturbation too will become a crime? Jeffrey ... come back on the TV and hold your head up high (not saying the head that should remain unseen).... you have nothing to be ashamed of. Maybe you could lead a new movement, who knows?


Masturbation Is at the Root of the Culture Wars

"Tell me how you really feel about masturbation, and I can more or less predict how you'll feel about the more frequently debated 'sex war' issues."
The view of masturbation as benign and beneficial is a new one. The Judeo-Christian tradition has long been hostile towards self-pleasure, at least for men. The Talmud compares spilling seed to spilling blood; the Zohar (the central work of Kabbalah) calls it the most evil act a man can commit. The traditional Christian view was no more tolerant; Catholic and Protestant authorities framed masturbation as a deeply sinful (though forgivable) waste of precious semen. Women were left out of these prohibitions for the obvious reason that most male religious authorities didn't consider the possibility that women were capable of or interested in giving themselves orgasms.

The campaign against masturbation became medicalized in the middle of the 19th century. Health reformers like Sylvester Graham (of the cracker) and John Harvey Kellogg (of the cereal) warned against the feminizing and enervating effects of male masturbation, describing it not as a sin but as a habit that could rob boys of their vital life force. At the same time, doctors began to warn of something theologians either hadn't considered or dared to mention: the dangers of female self-pleasure. Beginning in 1858, Dr. Isaac Baker-Brown—the president of the Medical Society of London—began to encourage surgical clitoridectomies to prevent hysteria, epilepsy, mania and even death that would surely follow as a consequence of the stimulation of the clitoris.

. At the same time, Granville, Baker-Brown, and their peers worried that a woman who learned to give herself sexual pleasure might pursue self-sufficiency in other areas. At a time of rising male anxiety about feminist demands for suffrage, female masturbation became an unsettling symbol of women's independence.

More than a century later, masturbation remains a cultural battleground. Many progressives were bewildered by Antonin Scalia's blistering 2003 dissent in Lawrence v Texas, in which he warned that state laws against evils such as "adult incest, prostitution, masturbation, adultery, fornication, and bestiality" might be invalidated as a result of the decision. Why, liberals wondered, was masturbation included on that list? The answer is simple: masturbation remains not only a grave sin in the eyes of the Catholic Church to which Scalia belongs, but its acceptance as benign and healthy is perhaps the foundational error of modern sexual culture.

The contemporary catechism of the church doesn't mention the waste of seed. Rather, heavily influenced by the late John Paul II's "theology of the body," it insists that our sexuality is intended for one purpose: "the relationship of one person to another, in the complete and lifelong mutual gift of a man and a woman." Evangelical Protestants often make the same case; the anti-porn ministry XXX Church teaches that "It is a selfish act that pleases no one but you. God created sex to be between a man and his wife. Not a man and his girlfriend and not a man or woman with himself or herself."


As religious conservatives see it, the great mistake we make when we masturbate is to claim our sexuality as ours alone. All sexual activity must be about "mutual self-giving" between a husband and a wife, the church claims, arguing that masturbation is "an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." Since masturbation is the first sexual act in which most people voluntarily engage, it is in a very real sense the original sexual sin from which all the others—based as they are on this mistaken sense of autonomy—flow. On the right, opposition to the idea of masturbation as an acceptable practice is growing rather than declining. Dr James Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family, long claimed that the practice was essentially benign. Since his retirement, the organization—a flagship for social conservatism—has changed its tune, now arguing firmly that "self-gratification is inconsistent with the purpose, goal and basic nature of sex.


https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/05/masturbation-is-at-the-root-of-the-culture-wars/276110/
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At her first news conference after being appointed director of the Arkansas State Health Department by then-Governor Clinton in 1987, she was asked whether she supported giving out condoms in public schools. "Well," she said, "I'm not going to put them on their lunch trays, but, yes."

In a January 1992 remark that offended Catholic leaders and other foes of abortion, she told them to "get over their love affair with the fetus."

In January 1993, describing the need for sex education, she said, "We've taught our children in driver's education what to do in the front seat, and now we've got to teach them what to do in the back seat."

Last year, Dr. Elders was the subject of a letter to Mr. Clinton from then-Archbishop William H. Keeler of Baltimore, who decried her "contemptuous" depiction of the church. In her remarks, Dr. Elders had attacked the Roman Catholic Church for remaining "silent" about everything from slavery to the Holocaust.

"Look at who's fighting the pro-choice movement," she said. "A celibate, male-dominated church."

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1994-12-10-1994344068-story.html
99 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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i agree samsingh Oct 2020 #1
Yeah the issue is not masturbation, it's masturbating in front of colleagues. WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2020 #2
This. cwydro Oct 2020 #15
"maybe masturbation will be a crime" Get a hold of yourself. WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2020 #3
Health expert on long life safeinOhio Oct 2020 #4
HA! Happy Hoosier Oct 2020 #5
He made a mistake and he admitted it, ruined his career, apologized Miigwech Oct 2020 #12
How has his career been ruined? WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2020 #18
Wagging your weenie in front of people who are not giving consent to see it is WRONG irisblue Oct 2020 #21
I've done embarrassing things in conference calls.... Happy Hoosier Oct 2020 #25
Yeah, but during a conference call? BeyondGeography Oct 2020 #6
JT was multi-tasking. no_hypocrisy Oct 2020 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author 33taw Oct 2020 #13
Time and a Place for everything. This was neither the Time nor the Place. That is all. hlthe2b Oct 2020 #7
It was (video) phone sex, not a private activity frazzled Oct 2020 #8
That account, as well as others, indicate that he was unaware he'd been seen. cwydro Oct 2020 #20
That would be why he apologized to his wife... dawg day Oct 2020 #27
He Couldn't Wait And Do That Stuff ON HIS OWN TIME?? nt smb Oct 2020 #61
Seriously bad form to defend him in any way Wawannabe Oct 2020 #9
Why is it bad form? SlogginThroughIt Oct 2020 #34
He's 60 Years Old. He Probably Can't Do It Very Often Anymore..... COL Mustard Oct 2020 #70
Yeah no. And if I'm one of the people on the call, you better believe MrsCoffee Oct 2020 #11
Agree. 33taw Oct 2020 #16
You said it perfectly. cwydro Oct 2020 #17
Yep Pacifist Patriot Oct 2020 #22
THIS Talitha Oct 2020 #28
Ditto that. No freaking way it should be tolerated. n/t CousinIT Oct 2020 #47
Exactly. n/t Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #60
Amen, sister. I can think of a lot of legal terms covering what he did *at work* & none of them... Hekate Oct 2020 #75
EXACTLY! nt Raine Oct 2020 #82
Absolutely. I find it incredible... VarryOn Oct 2020 #89
Don't do it Jeffery! You'll go blind! KWR65 Oct 2020 #14
Don't forget those hairy palms. Caliman73 Oct 2020 #30
The History Of The Matter Is An Interesting One The Magistrate Oct 2020 #19
Yes, thank you! Now Toobin really made a big mistake Miigwech Oct 2020 #26
Where did you get the info he was doing it with his wife? cwydro Oct 2020 #33
No, It's Not Just You RobinA Oct 2020 #48
I don't care if the "video porn" was his wife calling from her hotel bc she was on a business trip ResistantAmerican17 Oct 2020 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author dalton99a Oct 2020 #24
Yeah, no. Sympthsical Oct 2020 #29
The truth is ..... Miigwech Oct 2020 #32
And when you inadvertently expose your co-workers, you get fired. Sympthsical Oct 2020 #39
So you don't think sexual harassment is harmful? cwydro Oct 2020 #43
Right wingers are hypocritical fools. Caliman73 Oct 2020 #31
He has a troubling history with his "urges." cwydro Oct 2020 #35
Citation please. Caliman73 Oct 2020 #37
Someone cited it it this thread or another. cwydro Oct 2020 #38
Here you go. cwydro Oct 2020 #40
Yep. Seems to be a pattern. Caliman73 Oct 2020 #49
Yes, exactly. cwydro Oct 2020 #54
I wouldn't call it self destruction. Caliman73 Oct 2020 #55
I can't imagine having a well know parent who would do something like this. cwydro Oct 2020 #57
Seriously... Caliman73 Oct 2020 #59
Would make a difference to me too. Miigwech Oct 2020 #41
. melman Oct 2020 #42
Unfortunately there is alot of sexual moralism on the left as well. radius777 Oct 2020 #86
Dems were never the "cool" party on sex. Caliman73 Oct 2020 #99
Sometimes you just learn too much about somebody, even if they didn't do anything BusyBeingBest Oct 2020 #36
Next time you're at work, rub one out in a conference room & see how long you keep your job. Drunken Irishman Oct 2020 #44
Nobody cares if he beats off jcgoldie Oct 2020 #45
Was that wrong?!... PoliticAverse Oct 2020 #46
Sorry, but tossing off on a Zoom call with co-workers is fucked up, and career-ending in terms Celerity Oct 2020 #50
Saved me here from my own O.P. stepping into it. The loss of *trust* in an ally. UTUSN Oct 2020 #51
"Sperm donated?" cwydro Oct 2020 #56
I've asked you 4 times privately not to interact with my posts. This one is public. UTUSN Oct 2020 #58
This is a discussion forum dude. I can post where I like. cwydro Oct 2020 #63
And btw, you must be thinking of another poster. cwydro Oct 2020 #64
There must be at least 3 he's pulled this stunt on - Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #65
Yeah, I saved it, thinking of putting it out there. cwydro Oct 2020 #66
That provides some context. Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #67
Yes, I think there's some very thin skin involved here. cwydro Oct 2020 #68
"Sperm donated"??? Spazito Oct 2020 #72
Since you might actually be sincere in your concern, I'll answer until the concern is revealed to be UTUSN Oct 2020 #73
Here is my response to yours... Spazito Oct 2020 #74
& you have revealed. UTUSN Oct 2020 #76
I thought you weren't going to respond to me... Spazito Oct 2020 #77
If he wants to act like a teenager, then learn technology like one Polybius Oct 2020 #52
All this would be lovely ismnotwasm Oct 2020 #53
SPANK THAT MONKEY , JEFF !! Rustyeye77 Oct 2020 #62
Let's add the relevant qualifier to your question you omitted by design or not.. LanternWaste Oct 2020 #69
Not by design never (except Toobin) but by design probably 100% Miigwech Oct 2020 #71
He was at work- on the job Generic Brad Oct 2020 #78
Would you like to add a side order of "A Defense of Rudy" to that? bullwinkle428 Oct 2020 #79
No, rudy was not a private citizen, he was acting Miigwech Oct 2020 #80
I never understood the need for men to send dick pics to women to shock them. WyattKansas Oct 2020 #81
Yep. The patriarchy will circle the wagons to defend their own, every time. Tarc Oct 2020 #83
Dr. Jocelyn Elders was fantastic! She was so funny, Ilsa Oct 2020 #84
She was ahead of her times, even by today's standards Miigwech Oct 2020 #85
Agree. Most men and some women masturbate. radius777 Oct 2020 #87
The best explanation that perhaps we can all relate to. Miigwech Oct 2020 #88
"I knew there'd be awful takes like this from some dudes" Tarc Oct 2020 #90
Alot of that take is just driving youth and men (and men of color) radius777 Oct 2020 #91
We'll make this real simple for you Tarc Oct 2020 #93
He did nothing wrong though, it wasn't intentional. /nt radius777 Oct 2020 #95
Dicks do not slip into public view as a routine occurrence Tarc Oct 2020 #97
He was just tucking his shirt in anyway. BlueNProud Oct 2020 #92
I didn't read any of what was posted but the problem is he was working at the time JI7 Oct 2020 #94
Good grief. This is just ridiculous. GulfCoast66 Oct 2020 #96
This is up there with the stupidest things I've seen on DU kcr Oct 2020 #98
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