General Discussion

gollygee

(22,336 posts)

117. You're not getting the drunk/consent thing

Mon Mar 31, 2014, 03:35 PM

Mar 2014

If both people are drunk, and one is initiating and carrying out sex while the other is too drunk to actively participate, the one who carries it out is the rapist regardless of the gender of either or both, and regardless of whether the one carrying out sex is also very drunk.

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Rape Culture Is Real [View all] Ohio Joe Mar 2014 OP

All in favor of a rape culture resource forum? Blue_Adept Mar 2014 #1

Aye! CFLDem Mar 2014 #2

Not in favor of banishing these issues from GD. nt redqueen Mar 2014 #4

Who said banishing? Blue_Adept Mar 2014 #8

There's already a group for survivors. LeftyMom Mar 2014 #29

Which is a separate issue from this. nt Blue_Adept Mar 2014 #32

Then you're going to need to explain to me why discussions of rape culture don't belong in GD, LeftyMom Mar 2014 #55

Please tell me where I said that? Blue_Adept Mar 2014 #61

Yes, given the total lack of hostility and overwhelming support given to the issue of rape culture redqueen Mar 2014 #71

Sorry. I won't post about anything anymore. Blue_Adept Mar 2014 #86

we often have men tell us not to discuss this on gd. they way you worded, some are thinking you seabeyond Mar 2014 #92

You didn't explicitly say it, but that would be the result. cui bono Mar 2014 #89

This message was self-deleted by its author Blue_Adept Mar 2014 #93

Post removed Post removed Mar 2014 #96

oh stop..... it is poster like you that make us have little patience, misunderstanding arise. now, seabeyond Mar 2014 #98

Oh, it doesn't need to be fed NoOneMan Mar 2014 #100

hate? anger? animosity? that would be the repug way. dems tend to not feel we need seabeyond Mar 2014 #102

And yet here you are with your little crumbs. cui bono Mar 2014 #136

ditto NoOneMan Mar 2014 #141

this is how i took it. lol. but... going whiny doesnt help, lol. you just do not realize how seabeyond Mar 2014 #97

i think he meant as a reference. where it would not sink and go away. nt seabeyond Mar 2014 #94

Sorry, but I know DU. Hive off a group and there will be demands to move any discussions there. LeftyMom Mar 2014 #132

Careful, your agenda is showing. RC Mar 2014 #122

in your all knowing desire to diss redq, i guess you overlooked her gathering the numbers seabeyond Mar 2014 #124

How long is your shift on this thread, until you are relived? RC Mar 2014 #131

....... seabeyond Mar 2014 #135

What are you on about now? cui bono Mar 2014 #139

My post is self explanatory. RC Mar 2014 #144

There is already a group for that. cui bono Mar 2014 #145

My point is that the HoF does not advocate getting help for traumatic events that happen to women. RC Mar 2014 #152

That's not the purpose of HoF. cui bono Mar 2014 #161

HoF is a womans Group, is it not? RC Mar 2014 #170

you were condescending as fuck. and the woman that you were condescending to asked you to stop. seabeyond Mar 2014 #171

What are you talking about? RC Mar 2014 #181

That's not the purpose of a History of Feminism group. cui bono Mar 2014 #186

So what? People can't be emphatic and offer help when they see a problem? RC Mar 2014 #190

Careful, your agenda is showing. cui bono Mar 2014 #199

There is no answer Texasgal Mar 2014 #195

I ask. RC Mar 2014 #196

and I answered. Texasgal Mar 2014 #200

The real answer, if you don't want anyone to ask, is to keep it it the HoF RC Mar 2014 #201

This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond Mar 2014 #203

You sure read a lot into other people post that are not there, implied, nor even meant. RC Mar 2014 #206

This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond Mar 2014 #207

I have already told you, you are not going to get me to post something stupid. RC Mar 2014 #214

Lol... good riddance! demmiblue Mar 2014 #221

Well, the issue is Texasgal Mar 2014 #205

hof has a pinned Op with number for women that need help. i told him the first post he made. seabeyond Mar 2014 #208

Yeah, and apparently we Texasgal Mar 2014 #209

The problem here is, General Discussion is not the Safe Haven, History of Feminism. RC Mar 2014 #211

So what are you saying? Texasgal Mar 2014 #213

I know you are already PPR'd so this is for other people reading this thread. cui bono Apr 2014 #260

For posterity (as poster is now departed) MadrasT Apr 2014 #281

sistah...... seabeyond Apr 2014 #283

So if they "got help" then they'd stop complaining? Is that it? nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #264

Because the lives of 1/4 of the population BainsBane Mar 2014 #68

Maybe others consider the OP "important" even if you don't. n/t nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #263

lioness goes into another territory, the lion attacks rapes, biological, men cant help it. seabeyond Mar 2014 #3

"are you offended that a man tells you biologically you cannot help raping women?" Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #7

then you have an issue with reading comprehension. seabeyond Mar 2014 #9

yep, he just wrote that hfojvt Mar 2014 #12

Cherry picking does not give comprehension Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #22

the statistics show that most women are not victims hfojvt Mar 2014 #65

So you are intentionally misunderstanding to enable your denial... I see Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #66

In one year. Over the course of a lifetime, 1 in 6 women are raped. antigone382 Mar 2014 #113

I'm on your side of the issue but hjvoyt or whatever his name is is right about "the norm". cui bono Mar 2014 #95

Just to be clear... That is from the article, not my words... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #99

Ah, yes, and seabeyond is right too, in her reply to me. n/t cui bono Mar 2014 #108

i think the norm, is the normalization of rape in society. rape as entertainment, jokes, seabeyond Mar 2014 #101

Agree. n/t cui bono Mar 2014 #107

Not based on the numbers he is using. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #119

Bahhh. You can prove anything with facts NoOneMan Mar 2014 #74

especially if you ignore definitions and make up your own for argument sake to derail. seabeyond Mar 2014 #78

Yeah, like the whole "rape culture" helps mega rich Du Pont heirs get off for incest/pedophilia NoOneMan Mar 2014 #80

not really. but, you continue to make the point. and running in this thread, to derail seabeyond Mar 2014 #82

Why is "derail" your default fallback? NoOneMan Mar 2014 #88

that is the default of certain posters. you will see it is only for a small handful. most, i do seabeyond Mar 2014 #103

That *you* perceive to be doing such.... NoOneMan Mar 2014 #104

i didnt say otherwise. so? seabeyond Mar 2014 #106

So you aren't an authority on something we call "reality" NoOneMan Mar 2014 #114

here is a clue... do not fuggin tell me what to do. you derail. i will call it. like you have seabeyond Mar 2014 #115

Since that is an ANNUAL statistic - Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #118

Consider the ages women face rape Warpy Mar 2014 #133

most of my relationships with women hfojvt Apr 2014 #267

Not that you know of Warpy Apr 2014 #269

unlike you hfojvt Apr 2014 #271

it is very personal. and often a victim does not want to share it with family members. seabeyond Apr 2014 #272

You got that from the OP? ummmm... How? Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #13

She's referencing a different thread gollygee Mar 2014 #16

actually the lion raping lioness is this gem. saying it is within all men and can never be stamped seabeyond Mar 2014 #20

You know... It really just makes me a little sad... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #19

It is the accusations of guilt by association joeglow3 Mar 2014 #28

Are you offended by this (see below), cause this is actually stating that men can't help themselves boston bean Mar 2014 #85

Honest answer joeglow3 Mar 2014 #91

You're not getting the drunk/consent thing gollygee Mar 2014 #117

Exactly. Drunk consensual sex is consensual sex, drunk rape is rape. nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #268

btw... thank you. excellent post. and clear. anyone pretends confusion otherwise, does it seabeyond Mar 2014 #5

Wait a minute... Sheldon Cooper Mar 2014 #6

I shit you not, it was said right here on DU Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #11

Wow - that one left me speechless. n/t seaglass Mar 2014 #120

Excellent OP Tsiyu Mar 2014 #10

Thank you for posting this. TDale313 Mar 2014 #14

It really is a major issue... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #24

k&r Starry Messenger Mar 2014 #15

K & R In_The_Wind Mar 2014 #17

i love your thread so much, i am gonna start another discussion, off this. another OP, some smart seabeyond Mar 2014 #18

Rape Culture is when "pretty" pictures of women bound and gagged are seen as sexy and are Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #21

My first reaction to that was... NO, would not happen... Sadly... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #25

are you kidding me? the person posting them is a Lounge Host. Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #27

link please newcriminal Mar 2014 #49

go ask your husband. Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #51

I'm asking you newcriminal Mar 2014 #53

and I told you how to get the info. question has been asked and answered. go away. Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #56

Go away? newcriminal Mar 2014 #60

Just because bondage isn't your kink CFLDem Mar 2014 #30

boy. connect the dots. no more hard to get, tying 'em up??? just sayin'. seabeyond Mar 2014 #31

fucking disgusting. Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #35

some put themselves out there, make the rest wonder. nt seabeyond Mar 2014 #36

what I wonder is how it is allowed to live here among us. Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #38

really? you know better. and without rules, one has chaos. none of us should be surprised by chaos. seabeyond Mar 2014 #40

not naive just fucking burnt out. crispy critter is me. I am at DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND not Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #41

ya. nt seabeyond Mar 2014 #44

It's called free speech Tuesday. CFLDem Mar 2014 #43

oh please with your 1A. Thank god for 2A. capiche? and I mean it. DO NOT REPLY TO ME. Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #46

Really? You come to a political discussion board thucythucy Mar 2014 #70

Maybe CFLDem Mar 2014 #75

That's not how you originally stated your argument. thucythucy Mar 2014 #79

Oh my god,do you honestly not know sufrommich Mar 2014 #143

Just because you don't know anything about me doesn't mean that everything should stay. Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #33

What CFLDem Mar 2014 #39

I am talking about: Leave me alone. Please. Do not ever reply to me again. n/t Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #45

But is this a place for discussing one's bondage kink? mythology Mar 2014 #52

I haven't seen it either CFLDem Mar 2014 #57

Agreed Blue_Adept Mar 2014 #62

" And while I may pick on the HoF crowd, I kid, I kid." chervilant Apr 2014 #278

Well ciao to you too. CFLDem Apr 2014 #280

A link, for reference? Blue_Adept Mar 2014 #34

Not just no but HELL NO. what context do you think is justifiable? Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #37

Sorry Blue_Adept Mar 2014 #42

This message was self-deleted by its author CFLDem Mar 2014 #47

I regret to inform you that I am none of your business. I am right here in this thread. Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #50

context for posting pretty pictures in the lounge of bound and gagged women? Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2014 #48

Why is it so hard? Blue_Adept Mar 2014 #58

Could you at least give a link? LittleBlue Mar 2014 #63

It could be a scene from a movie for all we know tkmorris Mar 2014 #83

This message was self-deleted by its author rug Mar 2014 #126

WTF? n/t seaglass Mar 2014 #121

K&R. (nt) Paladin Mar 2014 #23

Good list. Bookmarking. nt rrneck Mar 2014 #26

K&R! hrmjustin Mar 2014 #54

Excellent explanation ismnotwasm Mar 2014 #59

Who has authority to declare that something is or isn't part of rape culture? Orrex Mar 2014 #64

Really? Which example would they disagree with? And why would that matter? Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #67

Are you serious? I would think that the disagreement is fairly central to the issue. Orrex Mar 2014 #69

oh... You are spreading the bullshit that 'RAINN denies rape culture' and deny it exists yourself Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #76

As I noted, anyone who disagrees with your assessment is an enabler or a blind victim. Orrex Mar 2014 #81

"decries an overemphasis" is not denying it exists... What you said is simply not true... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #87

I know that you want to believe that. Orrex Mar 2014 #105

yes, it would be the feminist and the supporters that say RAPISTs are responsible for rape. a duh. seabeyond Mar 2014 #109

In quotes?!? NoOneMan Mar 2014 #111

It is still not a denial it exists... You are still saying something that is not true... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #116

Find me RAINN's statement declaring that rape cuture exists as you describe it to exist. Orrex Mar 2014 #125

so, if rainn has not publicly endorsed rape culture then that means they declare it does not exist? seabeyond Mar 2014 #128

So... If they don't say exactly what I posted they deny it? Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #130

You haven't disproven anything, though I know that you want to believe you have. Orrex Mar 2014 #137

why not just say you were wrong. i do not expect all this from you. seabeyond Mar 2014 #138

Post removed Post removed Mar 2014 #147

you have jumped the shark seabeyond Mar 2014 #148

Jumping the shark is claiming "rape culture" lets a Du Pont heir off the hook for child rape NoOneMan Mar 2014 #151

""rape culture" lets a Du Pont heir off the hook for child rape" that is just stupid. no one seabeyond Mar 2014 #157

"no one said anything like that." NoOneMan Mar 2014 #162

""rape culture" lets a Du Pont heir off the hook for child rape" seabeyond Mar 2014 #166

Uhhh.... NoOneMan Mar 2014 #168

btw. this would be derailing. again. another part of the thread. after playing upthread. nt seabeyond Mar 2014 #158

No, you don't want to address my example of redefining "rape culture". You are derailing NoOneMan Mar 2014 #163

i am still addressing the offensive lie, there are duers that let a rapist of a baby, off the seabeyond Mar 2014 #167

Oh God. That's a straw man extraordinaire NoOneMan Mar 2014 #172

no duer lets a rapist off the hook for raping a baby. what is the matter with you. seabeyond Mar 2014 #174

Yes, because we don't have child rape culture. NoOneMan Mar 2014 #176

This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond Mar 2014 #178

Well then... Lets see you state Orrex's position clearly... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #142

I would be interested to hear you state clearly what you believe to be my position Orrex Mar 2014 #202

"decries an overemphasis" not denying existence. "means of preventing rape and as a cause for rape" seabeyond Mar 2014 #90

it would be nice people using rainn to counter rape culture actually read rainn. they are not sayin seabeyond Mar 2014 #77

Really? Which ones? ladyVet Mar 2014 #72

Me and thats pretty much it NoOneMan Mar 2014 #73

ahhh, thats cute... I knew the quotes would show up eventually. We even get them around misogynist Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #84

Who has the authority to declare who is and who is not a misogynist? Orrex Mar 2014 #112

Again with 'Who has the authority'... It's like we are getting into 'teach the controversy'.. Sheesh Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #123

Who in this thread has pretended that it doesn't exist? Orrex Mar 2014 #129

You have made a vague reference to someone I have no idea who you are talking about... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #134

Fortunately, you've disproven nothing. You've only insisted on your own interpretation. Orrex Mar 2014 #140

"Fortunately, you've disproven nothing."... 'But I'll change my claim'.. Too funny :) Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #146

Those claims are not at all incompatible Orrex Mar 2014 #175

Ok. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #110

Well... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #127

How do I perpetuate it or encourage it? Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #159

So you think only rapists do the examples in the OP? Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #164

I don't do any of what you pointed out in the OP. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #165

Do you tolerate that it does happen... Just shrug and say 'I don't do it"? Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #173

Yep. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #177

It was rhetorical... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #182

I didn't read any of the replies. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #183

ahhh... You don't see them... They are hidden so well... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #185

If I cared to look for them, I would. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #187

So... You will just tolerate them... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #188

I'm trying to finish my Master's thesis. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #189

Yet you have time to hit up a bunch of these threads with the same question... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #191

I'm sure you're a shining beacon of virtue. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #192

Not everyone makes jokes about rape culture... You seem to be ok with it Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #193

It was a response to how absurd it is to attempt to ban something Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #194

That is not true and anyone can look and see that plainly Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #197

*cough* Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #210

I don't see what your claims of getting a masters has to do with your jokes about rape culture... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #215

Do you agree that jokes about sexual assault and domestic violence should be avoided? Orrex Mar 2014 #216

Yes... I also find them in extra poor taste when put in threads about it... Do you? Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #217

I'm glad that we're on the same page. Orrex Mar 2014 #218

Sure, not a problem... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #220

Honestly, I don't seek them out. Orrex Mar 2014 #222

I already posted some in this sub-thread you came into but... Here they are again Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #225

Um. I'm not sure that either of those is a joke about rape culture Orrex Mar 2014 #227

Of course... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #228

Perhaps that's because your first instinct is to assume rape culture wherever you look. Orrex Mar 2014 #229

Archae admits those threads are about rape culture... Perhaps you refuse to see it Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #230

Archae's admission applies to his post, not to its replies Orrex Mar 2014 #231

wiggle wiggle wiggle Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #232

I asked you to point me to jokes about rape culture Orrex Mar 2014 #234

wiggle wiggle wiggle Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #235

So... You've got nothing. Orrex Mar 2014 #236

For somone who denies everything that is put in front of them? No... You would just deny it Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #239

Documented facts? Go on with your bad self. Orrex Mar 2014 #240

I have always admitted when I was wrong... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #242

If you had proven me wrong, I would admit it. Orrex Mar 2014 #246

No, it is not a lie, your words are still there... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #248

To answer your last question, first, *you* are lying. Orrex Apr 2014 #249

wiggle wiggle wiggle and denial again... What a shock... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #251

I'm not allowed a break once in a while? Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #219

Your idea of taking a break is making jokes about rape culture... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #223

Juries have no problems with what I posted. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #224

Juries do not always get it right... What can one do... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #226

If it were you wouldn't need a dozen threads trying to redefine the word "CULTURE"... Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #149

Fascinating... you openly deny rape culture... Do you deny the examples given? Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #150

I reject the silly term. nt Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #153

So you accept that the examples given occur far to regularly and that they are a problem? Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #154

Any occurrence of a victimizing crime beyond zero is "far too regularly" NoOneMan Mar 2014 #156

The topic is culture. CULTURE. Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #179

Thats because you've been brainwashed by "rejection culture" NoOneMan Mar 2014 #155

LOL! Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #160

So... No answer... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #169

Having some computer issues and making dinner... Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #180

Fascinating that you keep avoiding what I am asking... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #184

I don't see any avoidance here at all. Silent3 Mar 2014 #233

^^That Orrex Mar 2014 #237

I'm sorry for your reading comprehension problem... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #238

All I see is that you're angry that he isn't accepting the conversation on exactly your terms... Silent3 Mar 2014 #241

so it exists. we just are not to have a word that allows us to define the existence of it? seabeyond Mar 2014 #243

You're "allowed" to call it anything you like. Silent3 Mar 2014 #247

well. that is beyond silliness to recognize this "stuff" yet refuse to acknowledge this "stuff" seabeyond Apr 2014 #252

And where do you see any refusal to acknowledge that the various crimes, discriminatory treatment... Silent3 Apr 2014 #254

you mean the "stuff"? lmfao.... whatever. nt seabeyond Apr 2014 #255

Wow... That is a real bad comprehension problem you got there... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #245

In a new post, that poster just used terms like "crime" and "horror"... Silent3 Apr 2014 #250

So... Tell me if I'm understanding you correctly... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #253

it is "stuff". now it will be so totally comprehensible millions will get it. rollin eyes. nt seabeyond Apr 2014 #256

You have the right to ask the question, but no right to expect an answer, however. Silent3 Apr 2014 #258

You need a 'rapist with a heart of gold story' before you think there is a rape culture... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #259

A lot of the rest of the world can't believe what they read on DU either. Silent3 Apr 2014 #262

That you do not like the terminology is not what I can't believe... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #265

There's a difference between "not accepting" something and vehemently arguing against it. nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #270

I'd have a problem with someone calling a teapot a lampshade. Silent3 Apr 2014 #284

So if "rape culture" is as inaccurate as calling a teapot a lampshade, then what in your opinion nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #288

I don't know that there is a good blanket term Silent3 Apr 2014 #289

Maybe. I can't claim to have definitive solutions either, other than perhaps teaching people nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #290

We're a long way away from when a few AM radio stations were where most people... Silent3 Apr 2014 #285

The way you try to rationalize it away is sick... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #286

And now you're perfectly demonstrating just what I've said is the problem... Silent3 Apr 2014 #287

Nice try but you know it has nothing to do with 'framing' and everything to do with what you said Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #292

ah, if only i had the thread of all the rapist that were just "seducin'" in the movies. i do not seabeyond Apr 2014 #261

Like everyone else, I would describe them as a crime and a horror. nt Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #244

My issue is that I am just hearing of this "rape culture" which seems to being applied to everyone. madinmaryland Mar 2014 #198

Very nicely stated. Orrex Mar 2014 #204

It is indeed a symptom of a greater problem, i.e. ingrained hatred of women. n/t nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #273

THIS "Rape culture is when we teach women how to not get raped, instead of teaching men not to rape" Hekate Mar 2014 #212

So we shouldnt teach people how to defend themselves? davidn3600 Apr 2014 #275

Where did the OP say lack of self defense classes would stop rape? Read the OP and argue with him... Hekate Apr 2014 #277

Who ever said such a thing? Do you really have that much trouble reading? Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #282

Rape culture is when... Zenlitened Apr 2014 #257

They can decline to use the term if they so choose. I don't think anyone would really have a problem nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #274

When one "declines to use the term," one is accused of enabling rape culture. Orrex Apr 2014 #291

Absolutely true. William769 Apr 2014 #266

Thanks, Ohio Joe. Jamastiene Apr 2014 #276

Thank you for this OP. chervilant Apr 2014 #279