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In reply to the discussion: Did Patricia Arquette go off the rails? [View all]justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)174. There so much to address in this comment but I'm going to stay on topic
The reason for the dwindling numbers of women in the IT fields is due to lack of equal pay, sometimes sexual harassment and/or the fact that we're treated like idiots by some of our male counterparts. This leads women to go elsewhere, sometimes striking out on our own or leaving the field entirely. This is a huge issue that's been discussed often within the IT community--with no resolutions forthcoming--especially by the women it affects.
Here's an article from the LA Times (published yesterday) that addresses the issue. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-women-tech-20150222-story.html#page=1
Here's one salient quote:
"A Harvard Business Review study from 2008 found that as many as 50% of women working in science, engineering and technology will, over time, leave because of hostile work environments.
The reasons are varied. According to the Harvard study, they include a "hostile" male culture, a sense of isolation and lack of a clear career path. An updated study in 2014 found the reasons hadn't significantly changed."
The reasons are varied. According to the Harvard study, they include a "hostile" male culture, a sense of isolation and lack of a clear career path. An updated study in 2014 found the reasons hadn't significantly changed."
And here's an OPED linked in the same story from the woman who runs the Wikimedia Foundation: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-gardner-women-in-tech-20141207-story.html
"Women make up a tiny fraction, roughly 15%, of people working in technical roles in the tech industry. And amazingly, that percentage is dropping, not rising. Multiple studies have found that the proportion of women in the tech workforce peaked in about 1989 and has been steadily dropping ever since.
...snip...
Surveys and focus groups find that women enter the tech world empowered by their credentials and filled with enthusiasm and ambition. My own survey found that, like their male colleagues, women in tech report enjoying technology and wanting to work with brilliant people to solve tough problems. They're aware the industry's mostly male, but that's true of technical majors at universities, too, so most enter the workplace confident they know what they're facing and can push through any sexism they encounter. In the early years of their careers, women self-report themselves to be ambitious and happy. But over time they get ground down. Most have very few female role models and colleagues. Surveys find 23% to 66% report experiencing sexual harassment or seeing it happen to others. Half the respondents to my survey said they've been treated in a way they find hostile, demeaning or condescending, and a third said their bosses are friendlier and more supportive with their male colleagues. Women report being encouraged to move out of pure tech into support functions, which offer less pay, are less prestigious and have limited upward mobility. A 2014 Glassdoor analysis concluded that women in tech are paid less than their male colleagues, with another 2014 study putting the salary gap at 12%."
...snip...
Surveys and focus groups find that women enter the tech world empowered by their credentials and filled with enthusiasm and ambition. My own survey found that, like their male colleagues, women in tech report enjoying technology and wanting to work with brilliant people to solve tough problems. They're aware the industry's mostly male, but that's true of technical majors at universities, too, so most enter the workplace confident they know what they're facing and can push through any sexism they encounter. In the early years of their careers, women self-report themselves to be ambitious and happy. But over time they get ground down. Most have very few female role models and colleagues. Surveys find 23% to 66% report experiencing sexual harassment or seeing it happen to others. Half the respondents to my survey said they've been treated in a way they find hostile, demeaning or condescending, and a third said their bosses are friendlier and more supportive with their male colleagues. Women report being encouraged to move out of pure tech into support functions, which offer less pay, are less prestigious and have limited upward mobility. A 2014 Glassdoor analysis concluded that women in tech are paid less than their male colleagues, with another 2014 study putting the salary gap at 12%."
So yeah, you're hiring manager and female IT friends must be the exceptions to the rule.
I've worked in this industry for 15 years now and I just recently got to the Sr. level (Sr. Front-End Developer). Unfortunately at the company I work at now, there's nowhere for me to go but out the door because I'm the only front-end dev they have so I can't see being promoted to management there.
And as an aside at my last job I actually witnessed two men in the IT field get fired for sexual harassment--one only after the word "lawsuit" was mentioned (he thought I brought the sexual harassment claim and I didn't, it was a man) and the other the women that were involved (I was involved as a witness because I overheard the comments) in the complaint were reprimanded by their male boss because they should have gone to him because, "we lost a good guy because you went to HR instead of me." That's how the women who were harassed were treated... they were to blame because this guy got fired. This is not an isolated incident in the tech field, fortunately for me I have tough skin but it's nice not to have to put up with general harassment from the guys working by myself where I do now.
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A rehearsed statement might create more controversy than one that seems to come from the heart.
Kablooie
Feb 2015
#14
I appears that she was a bit in her cups at that point from those pre-Oscar parties...
CTyankee
Feb 2015
#4
Sorry, I meant that she might have sounded a little off, trying to get out her thoughts
CTyankee
Feb 2015
#141
She sounded impassioned, and she's justified. Her industry is notoriously unfair to female stars.
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#10
But then you compare Jennifer Lawrence's pay to a top black actresses's like Halle Berry and there's
Liberal_Stalwart71
Feb 2015
#176
I gave the example of Jennifer Lawrence because her role in the blockbuster Hunger Games
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#184
I know. I'm just trying to raise awareness because often black women (and other women of color)
Liberal_Stalwart71
Feb 2015
#191
Thanks for sharing this, Liberal_Stalwart71. I don't think Arquette expressed herself all that well,
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#192
what? her tone wasnt right for you? points were right on. only IF she had said it in a "nicer"
seabeyond
Feb 2015
#72
The point is there are so many Americans who suffer discrimination other than white protestant
randys1
Feb 2015
#79
I agree completely, my point was that there is so much discrimination that the criticism of
randys1
Feb 2015
#122
EXACTLY!...The nitpickers are, as was said downthread, just trying to stir things up.
whathehell
Feb 2015
#203
Meryl Streep was cheering her on. Women in that industry feel it as much or more than
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#6
Yeah, fuck us black women. Yep. I agree. We need to stop complaining and shut up.
Liberal_Stalwart71
Feb 2015
#178
Again, she did not have no. "White women" is implied in "women". The point many
Liberal_Stalwart71
Feb 2015
#226
She "did not have to"? I don't get it, why would 'women' imply only "white women"?
whathehell
Feb 2015
#227
Yes it would be better if women just kept quiet or stuck to polite conversation.
Warren Stupidity
Feb 2015
#12
Naw, you guy just tell us black Negro women that Patricia shit on last night to shut up.
Liberal_Stalwart71
Feb 2015
#177
Patricia Arquette was trmendous. Good for her. She was very brave to speak out.
greatlaurel
Feb 2015
#18
I'm shocked, Cali. I thought you were more enlightened that this. Arquette is being criticized
Liberal_Stalwart71
Feb 2015
#179
"because she, like many white women, completely ignore women of color and always have"
whathehell
Feb 2015
#208
YOU NEED TO SAY SO IN YOUR OP !!!!!!!!!! Loud and fucking gawdamn PROUD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tuesday Afternoon
Feb 2015
#46
Amy Pascal, the Sony exec who stepped down, said this about gender pay inequality:
closeupready
Feb 2015
#23
That 2 percent figure is a misunderstanding of statistics. When one person gets a 7% share,
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#86
There so much to address in this comment but I'm going to stay on topic
justiceischeap
Feb 2015
#174
My spouse worked at two pharmaceutical companies -- Men got FIRED in both for harrassing women
whathehell
Feb 2015
#242
Your post is the perfect example of why there is a need for voices like Ms. Arquette's and...
Spazito
Feb 2015
#37
I am not blaming women, I am blaming employers who know women will not ask for more.
dilby
Feb 2015
#140
I quit my job for the very reason that I was paid less than the man who had my job before me.
bravenak
Feb 2015
#60
I have to think that people who deny that women make less, get less promotions, and generally have a
DanTex
Feb 2015
#146
why would a man, who has never supported a womans issue, often posting anti women shit,
seabeyond
Feb 2015
#97
Have you seen this?...Jill Abrahmson from the "liberal" NY Times?..Widely publicized.
whathehell
Feb 2015
#204
Your link doesn't work, but have you ever read this study made for the Dept of Labor?
davidn3600
Feb 2015
#215
So every time a woman is fired, we have to automatically suspect gender bias?
davidn3600
Feb 2015
#217
After correcting for occupation, hours worked and qualifications, the wage gap may be as much as 5%.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2015
#85
How much do you think willingness to negotiate for salary plays a role?
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2015
#90
The US government's GAO says the wage gap narrows as women gain experience and education
davidn3600
Feb 2015
#104
Not completely. And it looks like that report is for federal employees, not the whole economy.
DanTex
Feb 2015
#112
Sure. But, again, your story is purely speculative. It's even weaker than anecdotal.
DanTex
Feb 2015
#162
First, no it doesn't --at most partially. And second, that depends heavily on what "account" means.
DanTex
Feb 2015
#168
There are people with agendas. That is why I take your personal accounts with a little salt.
DanTex
Feb 2015
#207
It's sexism to claim, in the face of all evidence, that it is women's "choices" and their
DanTex
Feb 2015
#219
Yes, hypothetically, that could happen. But in reality, that doesn't explain the gap.
DanTex
Feb 2015
#221
Tell that to Jennifer Lawrence, actor. Leaked documents showed she received a much smaller cut of
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#88
Great point! Did the Southerners think to make it back when those Northern meddlers were
Dark n Stormy Knight
Feb 2015
#105
my guess is no source would have been credible enough if it didnt fit their narrative
Romeo.lima333
Feb 2015
#152
oh it's you - well i disagree about rbg - we can put a younger healthier woman in her place
Romeo.lima333
Feb 2015
#159
'oh it's you' wasnt meant as some kind of insult more of familiarity - maybe i should have said
Romeo.lima333
Feb 2015
#164
you are, of course, free to guess whatever you like. most of the posters on this
niyad
Feb 2015
#157
it's just so predictable - someone says something someone doesnt like so they demand a source
Romeo.lima333
Feb 2015
#163
Why are you surprised? Racism runs rampant here at DU. No one mentioned that black women receive
Liberal_Stalwart71
Feb 2015
#188
Sure, we should continue to have "faith in the system" like Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella
suffragette
Feb 2015
#55
First - Cosmopolitan opinion pieces are just gossip. There was nothing wrong with what she said.
Avalux
Feb 2015
#65
yes-and actors have agents (and i mean actors not waiters/waitresses waiting for a break)
Romeo.lima333
Feb 2015
#113
Don't agents have to negotiate with the same studios that underpay their female employees?
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#110
An agent for Jennifer Lawrence wouldn't know what the studio was paying to another actor.
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#175
Kept hearing radio news bits about "controversial" speech and I thought - wheres the
Kashkakat v.2.0
Feb 2015
#172
I read that as 'let all of us who have been marginalized fight for each others rights!'
peacebird
Feb 2015
#205
From a magazine that teaches women how to wear the right push up bra and groan properly during sex
LynneSin
Feb 2015
#212
Oh, noes!!! Really??? Now HOW could I have bungled that up??? (sarcasm)
Waiting For Everyman
Feb 2015
#246