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Mc Mike

(9,114 posts)
114. Naomi Klein's '07 book. P. 61 on Milton Friedman.
Tue May 8, 2012, 10:34 AM
May 2012

It looks like there's 2 different issues on this post. 1) Whether to back Sec. Clinton and how much power and independence she has.
2)Exactly what's happening in Greece and other European Union partners that are teetering economically (and politically, socially).

I back Pres Obama and Sec Clinton in '12. How much foreign and econ policy control they can exert over this serious situation in Greece is debatable. My opt out scenario of re-taking Grenada wasn't a slur vs. our current Dem admin, just whistling in the dark. I know Sec. Clinton had nothing to do with Raygun pulling out of the Lebanon hot-spot and hitting Grenada, to chalk up a 'win'. I believe the harsh response to Ken here is by people that want Clinton in '16, and I'm thinking about '12. Adverse post-ers on this thread might also just want some recognition of the enormous amount of work our S.O.S. is doing, and I freely admit it.

Chicago boy shock doctrine addresses # 2. Didn't mean for it to be cryptic. Ms. Klein is a syndicated writer for The Nation, The Guardian, and Harpers; and Former Fellow at the London School of Econ. Her book 'The Shock Doctrine' covered the Milton Friedman University of Chicago neo-liberal school of economic thought, whose adherents sometimes self-appelate as the Chicago Boys (p. 95). It was interesting watching Prof. Krugman recently on R. Maddow trying to 're-claim' Friedman, but I think he was just saying current repug economic policy makes Friedman look reasonable, like how Dem politicians will sometimes 'appropriate' the positive aspects of Nixon or Reagan in order to illustrate how out of whack current GOP 'thinking' is.

Prof. Klein talks about WTO \ IMF {"business-friendly policies imposed through arm twisting...The three trademark demands -- privatization, government deregulation, and deep cuts to social spending ... extremely unpopular with citizens..." (p. 10).} That's Greece. I saw Kieros the Athens protest dog running around on this site a while back, ironically putting a 'human face' on the struggle there, which looks like Arab Spring and Occupy. As a Rainbow Coalition labor Dem, I see the Greek protestors and those other groups as allies, who are against the shock doctrine measures enacted against the 99%, by WTO (GATT, Free Trade agreements), IMF-World Bank, G-8 \ G-20, and E. U. economic policy.

Prof. Klein discussed how that alphabet soup of governmental and quasi-governmental groups actually use crises (social, political, economic), wars, and natural disasters to impose austerity on the citizens, and their corporate and financial industry 1%-er friends make a heap of money in the process. She shows where those groups precipitate crises, then use them and make profits. That's the shock doctrine. Her book gives a ton of good info, I have it dog-eared and marked up extensively.

Greece has strikes and riots, hopeless citizens turning to nazi strong men for an answer, and the possibility of another far-right military coup. The Greeks and Turks are militarized and have long-standing problems with each other. The Turks are embroiled against the Kurds, down into Iraq. The Greeks oppose the existence of Macedonia, which western financial interests carved out of the carcass of Yugoslavia. Last I heard, they oppose its recognition in the UN. So we're looking at a flash point that stretches from the Balkan WWI flash point right down into Iraq, where the whole Middle East is a tinder-box. Not an easy job for our Sec. of State.

Lastly, I call the Dailey bros the Dailey 'Boys', myself. Mayor Emmanuel has a certain boyish charm, and boyish good looks, but I was sorry to hear his opinion on progressives' mental capacities. Klein and Palast both cover the Friedman economic 'Chicago Boys' ethically shaky moves. I'd never call the Pres a 'boy', or the Sec a 'girl', but their connections to Chicago are extensive. I opposed the DLC, in every election primary for the last 20 years, even before the Koch-connection was revealed. But given the GOP penchant for constantly fielding a candidate that is more stupid, craven, and feckless than their previous election cycle offering, I anticipate them running Pauly Shore in '16. So whoever the repugs run, if Sec. Clinton is our party's nominee, I'll cast my first vote for a DLC candidate.





She will respond however Obama wants her to respond Autumn May 2012 #1
You're sure about that? Ken Burch May 2012 #3
yes maddezmom May 2012 #6
no rouge? HiPointDem May 2012 #52
yes maddezmom May 2012 #62
dunno, looks like she's wearing some in this snap: HiPointDem May 2012 #66
Of course I'm sure of it. Autumn May 2012 #14
Oh, you know. The all-powerful Hillary DevonRex May 2012 #16
Look at how Honduras and Haiti played out. Ken Burch May 2012 #19
I doubt President Obama is so weak-willed he allowed Clinton to lead him around obamanut2012 May 2012 #46
You have that right Autumn May 2012 #20
It makes me blush. Or is that marybourg May 2012 #65
i'm waiting for Bea to come in guns blazing on this one.... dionysus May 2012 #108
So am I. And I'd back her up 100% too. DevonRex May 2012 #109
Of course, Hillary Clinton is a loyalist to Obama obamanut2012 May 2012 #44
You left out the murder of Vince Foster... cthulu2016 May 2012 #2
I never thought she did that and I hate all the rw anti-HRC stuff. Ken Burch May 2012 #4
LOL DURHAM D May 2012 #10
You're laughing at the truth. Ken Burch May 2012 #18
Double LOL FSogol May 2012 #121
This message was self-deleted by its author sharp_stick May 2012 #5
What bullshit? Ken Burch May 2012 #9
I think our neoliberals will just ignore any European backlash against austerity. girl gone mad May 2012 #7
This is the right answer, imo. nt EFerrari May 2012 #51
Is this a joke that I'm not getting? DevonRex May 2012 #8
just your daily anti-dem campaigning, is all.... dionysus May 2012 #107
I swear I feel like I'm back in 2008 suddenly. DevonRex May 2012 #110
Does this comic book of yours come with drawings? jberryhill May 2012 #11
You'd have said the same thing in a discussion about Dean Rusk and LBJ in '67. Ken Burch May 2012 #24
LOL. This is absolutely absurd fantasy RZM May 2012 #12
You're assuming she won't shape that line. Ken Burch May 2012 #21
Holy Shit! cynatnite May 2012 #13
No, that's the implant Hillary put there back during the last DevonRex May 2012 #15
Holy shit dude. Starry Messenger May 2012 #17
Remember Haiti and Honduras Ken Burch May 2012 #26
I'm not excusing anything, but those countries are in our hemisphere. Starry Messenger May 2012 #28
These are *not* natural questions on a day such as this. Ikonoklast May 2012 #22
Remember Haiti and Honduras Ken Burch May 2012 #23
Yes, it would have obamanut2012 May 2012 #49
My point was the values WalMart represents, I wasn't saying it controls foreign policy Ken Burch May 2012 #56
Perhaps you need to read about her tenure on the Board obamanut2012 May 2012 #61
Oh, you thought so, too? aquart May 2012 #81
Better question would be how will the Obama administration react? maddezmom May 2012 #25
On foreign policy, to a large degree, yes. Ken Burch May 2012 #27
so you are calling Obama a puppet maddezmom May 2012 #29
This is some DevonRex May 2012 #30
It's just that I think I understand how power works. Ken Burch May 2012 #36
If Obama isn't free to "call the tune" on foreign policy, then who does? obamanut2012 May 2012 #53
None of the above. bvar22 May 2012 #115
What forces, Ken? Starry Messenger May 2012 #54
The Pentagon, big finance, corporate power Ken Burch May 2012 #57
That was during the Cold War. Starry Messenger May 2012 #60
Mayhaps the shadowy and elusive Hilderberg Group?! obamanut2012 May 2012 #58
OMG. Starry Messenger May 2012 #59
Pffft. Everyone knows it is the Hilluminati that hold the *real* power. Ikonoklast May 2012 #92
I think you are getting the Hilluminati confused with the Hassan Hil Sabbah Starry Messenger May 2012 #95
As if you've ever been invited to one of their gatherings. Ikonoklast May 2012 #97
Dark Forces jberryhill May 2012 #64
And a woman is the "larger force"? A WOMAN? IN AMERICA? aquart May 2012 #83
This has NOTHING to do with gender. HRC's gender is totally irrelevant to me and you know it. Ken Burch May 2012 #85
Hillary didn't leave the primary early tammywammy May 2012 #31
I amended it to "the race", not the primaries. My apologies on that point. Ken Burch May 2012 #33
You are right on, Ken. Webster Green May 2012 #35
I expected the response Ken Burch May 2012 #40
and sometimes a banana is just a.... banana cali May 2012 #93
Then she has been failing miserably at 'maintaining the status quo, forever', then. Ikonoklast May 2012 #55
Wow. Hillary dropped out of the 2008 primary in exchange for total control of US foreign policy?... SidDithers May 2012 #125
have they really defied the oligarchs and germany, though? BOG PERSON May 2012 #32
SYRIZA is staunchly anti-austerity. Ken Burch May 2012 #34
i know they're anti-austerity BOG PERSON May 2012 #98
Just a small correction nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #37
That, too. Ken Burch May 2012 #41
Nothing. She knows the election changes nothing. hack89 May 2012 #38
Actually, it opens many possibilities for change. Ken Burch May 2012 #42
Those new and creative alternatives had better fit within the global economy and financial markets hack89 May 2012 #47
A pro-austerity party can do neither Ken Burch May 2012 #48
Not sure what you think money is. girl gone mad May 2012 #79
I know that spending more money than you have is a bad thing. hack89 May 2012 #94
spending more money than you have is the main way individuals expand their assets. HiPointDem May 2012 #103
But when your bills get so large that they consume a large and growing portion of your income hack89 May 2012 #106
spending on social benefits has a direct impact on the economy. so not sure what you're HiPointDem May 2012 #111
But if government tax receipts do not increase to cover those loan payments hack89 May 2012 #112
"LESS Regulation".... bvar22 May 2012 #116
Ok - do you at least accept the need for less corruption and tax reform? nt hack89 May 2012 #117
Are you missing a marble? Ruby the Liberal May 2012 #39
I was just getting out my DevonRex May 2012 #43
Okay - I'll hang onto it for now. Ruby the Liberal May 2012 #50
CALL CONGRESS RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!!! Lil Missy May 2012 #45
And alert Hugh Series while you're at it!!!1! Chorophyll May 2012 #124
She will go to her Fortress of Solitude jberryhill May 2012 #63
Bwa-ha-ha. Nominating for a DUZY - n/t coalition_unwilling May 2012 #73
And do you think the US should directly grant funds for Greek benefits? dkf May 2012 #67
I think the U.S. should make sure that U.S.-owned companies doing business in Greece Ken Burch May 2012 #68
But GREECE is the FLEA!! Who cares if someone looks delusional to them! Zalatix May 2012 #71
One of the most frugal benefit systems in the EU? Can you back that up? dkf May 2012 #72
Here's one measure, from the FAIR website: Ken Burch May 2012 #74
The Greek social safety net is very modest by European standards. girl gone mad May 2012 #80
Greece's generous pensions What makes Germans so very cross about Greece? dkf May 2012 #84
On a progressive website, you cite "The Economist"? Ken Burch May 2012 #87
This is what came up when I googled for Greek vs German pensions. dkf May 2012 #89
All that tells us is that Greece pays somewhat more for pensions than Germany Ken Burch May 2012 #127
Even from a neoliberal magazine.. girl gone mad May 2012 #91
I wish I could do a 'DUrec' for this comment! I'm 100% on board! LongTomH May 2012 #118
I think that Hillary and Bill will call their broker and pronto! JDPriestly May 2012 #69
That, too. Of course. Ken Burch May 2012 #70
Christ, she's still trying to wash the blood off her hands from 1,000,000+ coalition_unwilling May 2012 #75
Assuming she's the monster you think she is kenny blankenship May 2012 #76
Seriously this is a pancake on rabbit type of question RFKHumphreyObama May 2012 #77
What the hell is a "pancake on rabbit type of question"? Ken Burch May 2012 #78
See: muriel_volestrangler May 2012 #88
Be careful DonCoquixote May 2012 #82
That has become pretty obvious in this thread by now. Ken Burch May 2012 #86
if Hillary says/does that then it will probably be because it's Obama's policy CreekDog May 2012 #102
She will unleash the Kraken NoPasaran May 2012 #90
Quickly now - get an email off to President Obama. DURHAM D May 2012 #96
You left out Colombia Oilwellian May 2012 #99
... progressoid May 2012 #100
Maybe re-invade Grenada. Mc Mike May 2012 #101
Care to explain Chicago "boy" shock doctrine? nt DevonRex May 2012 #104
Naomi Klein's '07 book. P. 61 on Milton Friedman. Mc Mike May 2012 #114
Ken: you may be right, you may not be. But I'm not ridiculing you. DisgustipatedinCA May 2012 #105
Thanks for the thoughtful post. Ken Burch May 2012 #126
I was hoping this would be a Text From Hillary Capt. Obvious May 2012 #113
Me too. I love those badass sunglasses. nt Chorophyll May 2012 #123
Hillary WILL support the interests of the IMF and the Global Banks. bvar22 May 2012 #119
What ever it turns out to be juice feast May 2012 #120
She'll carry out the orders given to her by her boss, the President of the United States. Arkana May 2012 #122
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