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starroute

(12,977 posts)
21. I really doubt the Neanderthal possibility will hold up
Fri Jun 15, 2012, 12:07 PM
Jun 2012

Last edited Fri Jun 15, 2012, 03:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Over just the last few months, there's been a rapid shift in the dating of when modern humans arrived in Europe. The upshot is that they showed up a whole lot earlier than previously thought, that the Neanderthals were already nearly extinct even before then, and that any evidence of advanced symbolic behavior previously attributed to Neanderthals is turning out to be associated with modern humans instead.

Most European Neanderthals died out 50,000 years ago.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120225110942.htm

Carvings from a German cave, definitely made by modern humans, have been redated to 43,000 years ago.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120524092226.htm

Recent dating of some teeth and a jaw fragment shows modern humans were in both England and Italy between 41,000 and 44,000 years ago. This suggests they must also have reached France and northern Spain no later than 40,000-41,000 years ago (and perhaps earlier), which exactly matches the new date for the Spanish cave art of 40,800 years ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15540464
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2011/11/uluzzian-was-sapiens-not-neanderthal.html

The redating for Italy specifically upsets the assumption that the Uluzzian culture -- which included the use of personal ornaments and pigments -- can be attributed to Neanderthals.
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/11/2011/new-dating-of-cave-site-upsets-neanderthal-theory

In addition, it was always assumed in the past that that Neanderthals made some kind of cultural leap in the last couple of thousand years before they went extinct as a result of contact with modern humans. But DNA studies have now shown that although there was interbreeding when modern humans first arrived in the Middle East from Africa, present-day Europeans show at most a minutely greater percentage of Neanderthal DNA than people in East Asia do. This further supports the new scenario in which there were very few Neanderthals left in Europe when modern humans arrived there and little to no contact between the two groups.

Hmmmm... Frank Cannon Jun 2012 #1
I came in here to see this posted. joshcryer Jun 2012 #10
Hmmmm... Frank Cannon Jun 2012 #2
Errr... but Neanderthals were a type of human. eShirl Jun 2012 #3
Entirely plausible DFW Jun 2012 #4
Is the museum accessible by public transportation? spinbaby Jun 2012 #16
Yes, several trains and buses from Dusseldor OldEurope Jun 2012 #20
Who said Neanderthals weren't human? baldguy Jun 2012 #5
"Science" "news" correspondants are, too frequently, Science-challenged. n/t eShirl Jun 2012 #6
And that actually goes for those who publish the AAAS "Science" magazine too muriel_volestrangler Jun 2012 #8
Apparently a sub-species or separate human species - TBF Jun 2012 #17
meh---it was Freepers. trumad Jun 2012 #7
Can't be. The lack of opposable thumbs would have given them away. tclambert Jun 2012 #11
Freepers aren't that talented. hobbit709 Jun 2012 #12
It's hard work misspelling a pictogram IDemo Jun 2012 #18
But they do manage to do it. hifiguy Jun 2012 #23
Eh, you give them too much credit. joshcryer Jun 2012 #13
Somebody needs to make the "You're not special" speech to the entire human species, tclambert Jun 2012 #9
Didn't know the tea party was into art. AnnieK401 Jun 2012 #14
does it really matter who painted the caves? madrchsod Jun 2012 #15
c'mon! republicans aren't artists! unblock Jun 2012 #19
I really doubt the Neanderthal possibility will hold up starroute Jun 2012 #21
Thanks for all that info! I'm just finishing Finlayson's "The Humans Who Went Extinct" ... eppur_se_muova Jun 2012 #24
Watch a Show that stated that Modern Humans and Neanderthals overlapped but not together happyslug Jun 2012 #26
Another obvious possibility slackmaster Jun 2012 #22
all white humans have Neanderthal blood librechik Jun 2012 #25
Possible, but unlikely cthulu2016 Jun 2012 #27
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