General Discussion

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)

160. Well the thing is you can be pardoned even if you haven't committed any crimes.

Fri Jul 21, 2017, 08:51 PM

Jul 2017

For example suppose the President pardoned you for any crimes you committed during the
years 2014-2015. The President could do that even if no one has accused you of committing
a federal crime during that time. If you accept the pardon does that mean you committed a
federal crime during that time? Couldn't you just say "thanks for the pardon even though I don't
need it".

Remember Burdict v US was about the right to reject a pardon not so much about what
accepting a pardon really meant legally.

Although a pardon would prevent someone using their 5th amendment right to refuse to testify
they could always say "I don't recall" during testimony and who could disprove that?
A prosecutor would have greater leverage over someone who wasn't pardoned but could be
prosecuted as the prosecutor could demand a proffer agreement in return for an immunity offer.

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*****BREAKING*****WAPO- Trump considering pardoning himself and criminal associates [View all] DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2017 OP

Maddow reporting Trumps lawyers looking into what Trumps authority would be to parden riversedge Jul 2017 #1

He cannot pardon State crimes in State courts like NY, NJ, etc... Madam45for2923 Jul 2017 #175

He knows Don Jr. is going to crack under pressure Thrill Jul 2017 #2

I think he gave Junior up gldstwmn Jul 2017 #71

Being anything but an expert in these matters, BobTheSubgenius Jul 2017 #91

New York Times is reporting too leftinalabama Jul 2017 #3

He's done. But if he leaves, we get Pence. dixiegrrrrl Jul 2017 #12

Dems need to make sure Pence, Ryan, and the rest of the Republican party klook Jul 2017 #39

They're not going to pay any price whatsoever, or even get charged for the bill, Volaris Jul 2017 #67

Pence is most probably compromisd as well Perseus Jul 2017 #43

If Trump was elected by fraud, then so was Pence. keithbvadu2 Jul 2017 #61

True.... unfortunately there's no way to undo an election groundloop Jul 2017 #66

As far as I know... IthinkThereforeIAM Jul 2017 #94

There is no mechanism to undo an election. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #115

I wasn't implying that the election was ... IthinkThereforeIAM Jul 2017 #127

We will get Ryan then. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #135

More likely Orrin Hatch... IthinkThereforeIAM Jul 2017 #144

e will get President Hatch, and hopefully a Dem in 2010 obamanut2012 Jul 2017 #146

More like Superintendsent Hatch jmowreader Jul 2017 #147

Yep...a Dem needs to win in 20, I hope we get the Senate in 18 and shut down Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #151

Why would you think that? regnaD kciN Jul 2017 #101

Couple scenarios are likely here. dixiegrrrrl Jul 2017 #129

Senate Intel committee will most likely hire Mueller if agent Orange fires him onetexan Jul 2017 #145

Schumer said something to that affect, in a stern tone. dixiegrrrrl Jul 2017 #152

trump cant say no to the senate onetexan Jul 2017 #155

I hope to God he can't walk away from this...truly a constitutional crisis. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #114

Mueller's hound dogs are getting too close to the crime family's financial statements dalton99a Jul 2017 #4

I think you are right harun Jul 2017 #120

Every one of herr drumpf's actions screams of guilt. greatauntoftriplets Jul 2017 #5

Sure do. Blue_true Jul 2017 #10

Can he pardon himself before charges are Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #6

How about others ? DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2017 #11

Ford pardoned Nixon prospectively marylandblue Jul 2017 #15

Yes but there's a catch! Worktodo Jul 2017 #21

Actually, there was a case like that in1915 marylandblue Jul 2017 #50

They will testify Cosmocat Jul 2017 #60

Sitting in a cell orangecrush Jul 2017 #78

How so? Cosmocat Jul 2017 #118

Didn't elderBush pardon Casper Weinberger even though not convicted? keithbvadu2 Jul 2017 #63

Weinberger was indicted DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2017 #117

Good question FarPoint Jul 2017 #59

Nixon has better moral fiber-refuse to pardon before resigning Catmusicfan Jul 2017 #7

Hey, GOP, you still okay with this? Barack_America Jul 2017 #8

If it keeps them in power? Bettie Jul 2017 #64

My guess......... SergeStorms Jul 2017 #65

"Don't mess with our rubber stamp!!" Beartracks Jul 2017 #158

Time for us to fasten our seatbelts, gang nt eleny Jul 2017 #9

Disgusting if everyone in this admin gets away with it due to pardon power OliverQ Jul 2017 #13

Trump's power to pardon dgibby Jul 2017 #44

Ahhhh sweet... FarPoint Jul 2017 #62

No, but Schneiderman can. smirkymonkey Jul 2017 #72

Can NY use the investigation data from Mueller? FarPoint Jul 2017 #81

I'm not sure. That's a good point. I am sure that Schneiderman smirkymonkey Jul 2017 #97

It should be able to as long as the collection didn't violate the constitution of NY dsc Jul 2017 #100

Wouldn't it be rich if any of those NY investigations resulted in asset R B Garr Jul 2017 #106

But if Drumpf implodes and takes himself off the board central scrutinizer Jul 2017 #14

If trump tried to pardon himself, it would definitely be challenged in the courts. For one still_one Jul 2017 #16

Yes, and didn't some congressman from Texas Mr.Bill Jul 2017 #30

The "except in cases of impeachment" clause means that the President can't prevent anyone... PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #79

Then that would apply Mr.Bill Jul 2017 #128

I'm pretty sure that the Supreme Court would reject the idea of a President being able.... PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #130

I agree, Mr.Bill Jul 2017 #140

I think it would be 9-0 if the issue were raised now. I don't think any more... PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #142

Al Green, from Houston n/t TexasBushwhacker Jul 2017 #95

It's very unlikely the Supreme Court would find that the President could pardon himself. n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #76

I agree still_one Jul 2017 #93

So he pardons everybody, resigns and then pence pardons him elehhhhna Jul 2017 #136

That could indeed happen. n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #138

There's enough popcorn for everybody, pass around MiddleClass Jul 2017 #17

Thanks! montana_hazeleyes Jul 2017 #36

You're welcome, a pleasure MiddleClass Jul 2017 #149

Thanks! think4yourself Jul 2017 #58

You're welcome, again a pleasure MiddleClass Jul 2017 #150

Is it possible Corgigal Jul 2017 #18

So this is how it ends? Signs of it anyway. Looks like they all R B Garr Jul 2017 #19

If running from criminal charges and pardoning himself gets him out of power... NightWatcher Jul 2017 #22

I hear you! Looks like he has an eye on the exit. R B Garr Jul 2017 #26

Mueller should let him know that it's a safe out. NightWatcher Jul 2017 #28

I hope they're all hitting the Constitutional books tonight to find a way. R B Garr Jul 2017 #29

Apparently presidential pardons are good for federal crimes only. Enoki33 Jul 2017 #52

Correct dflprincess Jul 2017 #56

Looks like New York might be hostile territory for him, then. He's insulted so R B Garr Jul 2017 #105

From your lips to Gods ear. sheshe2 Jul 2017 #102

It's like the Hunt for Red October in reverse. R B Garr Jul 2017 #103

Yup. sheshe2 Jul 2017 #104

But will he just stay in office with a complicit Congress? Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #116

We are living in HISTORIC times. Mrs. Overall Jul 2017 #20

... Oneironaut Jul 2017 #23

lol, that's good. R B Garr Jul 2017 #27

I know most presidents/aides that are ALBliberal Jul 2017 #24

But they can't be pardoned from crimes not yet committed. Mr.Bill Jul 2017 #34

Good point ALBliberal Jul 2017 #41

In theory angrychair Jul 2017 #54

Can he give them repeated blanket pardons? Generic Brad Jul 2017 #55

The President can't pardon away future crimes. n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #80

But one adviser said the president has simply expressed a curiosity in understanding grantcart Jul 2017 #25

Apparently he's curious about Russian adoptions as well. flibbitygiblets Jul 2017 #47

We're really into brand new territory here NastyRiffraff Jul 2017 #31

I don't think there are many knowledgeable people that think the courts would allow... PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #86

Y'know, Trump... Pardoning is only for guilty parties. No, really. n/t Beartracks Jul 2017 #32

+1 CentralMass Jul 2017 #113

Obviously, trump cannot pardon his family or himself because that Akamai Jul 2017 #33

Trump can certainly pardon family members, but most likely not himself. n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #83

Good distinction you make here, but if you think pardoning Akamai Jul 2017 #92

Trump is guilty of so much shit, let him pardon himself for something and then charge him with world wide wally Jul 2017 #35

The timing of this pardon talk appears as conspiracy to obstruct justice by 45 and his lawyers. ancianita Jul 2017 #37

If he's allowed to get away with this then our Constitution ecstatic Jul 2017 #38

That's an excellent point onetexan Jul 2017 #148

The wild card is charges at the NY state level. roamer65 Jul 2017 #40

More and more this state level prosecution ALBliberal Jul 2017 #46

Pardon us while we get sick. Marcuse Jul 2017 #42

I was waiting for this all along benld74 Jul 2017 #45

As Steve Schmidt said a few months ago Best_man23 Jul 2017 #48

So he admits he's guilty. BainsBane Jul 2017 #49

I smell blood. The big boom is coming!! And I hope it takes out the gop too AgadorSparticus Jul 2017 #51

To be pardonnrd you have to be guilty burrowowl Jul 2017 #53

Not necessarily, although it is somewhat an unsettled legal question. n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #82

As I read Burdick v. US, 236 U.S. 79 (1915) TomSlick Jul 2017 #159

Well the thing is you can be pardoned even if you haven't committed any crimes. PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #160

An interesting question but TomSlick Jul 2017 #161

Well that's the question. If you are offered a pardon until you invoke that pardon... PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #162

Part of the problem TomSlick Jul 2017 #163

These are the sorts of questions you don't ask. Turbineguy Jul 2017 #57

This just gets better and better... Luciferous Jul 2017 #68

If he tries this then gldstwmn Jul 2017 #69

I hope the entire cabal goes down. gademocrat7 Jul 2017 #70

Down, down, down, in a burnin' ring of fire... Hekate Jul 2017 #74

STAND BACK! orangecrush Jul 2017 #73

Scorched Earth Coming DallasNE Jul 2017 #75

Claude just posted that Mueller has Trump's tax returns, because Comey had them. OliverQ Jul 2017 #77

Pardons could lead to impeachment Shoonra Jul 2017 #84

It was the plan all along.... Pachamama Jul 2017 #85

Bloody hell, this is major history we are witnessing... Puzzler Jul 2017 #87

Over a "fake news nothingburger"? Warren DeMontague Jul 2017 #88

I started a thread on this a while back Gothmog Jul 2017 #89

H Y P O C R I T E S ! ! ! ! Roland99 Jul 2017 #90

If a President could pardon himself why didn't Nixon? Lint Head Jul 2017 #96

Because Nixon had more class than 45. For everything bad about Nixon, you have to say... Midnight Writer Jul 2017 #98

Nixon had been an honorable WWII veteran. Trump has no patriotism. WinkyDink Jul 2017 #110

Well Nixon didn't even pardon the other people in his administration PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #99

I don't think Trump will. He wants to pardon himself. Lint Head Jul 2017 #107

Trump's admitting guilt for Hieronymus Jul 2017 #108

Can a President pardon himself? WinkyDink Jul 2017 #109

No Hieronymus Jul 2017 #112

Thank goodness for small favors! WinkyDink Jul 2017 #119

Trump's basically admitting that crimes octoberlib Jul 2017 #111

And when the evidence comes in that he is an international criminal working Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #126

Can't he still be impeached by Congress, even if he pardons himself? eShirl Jul 2017 #121

This is a Fiat Dictatorship bucolic_frolic Jul 2017 #122

It's a dictatorship if it's allowed to stand, and I have my doubts. Texin Jul 2017 #124

At this point, nothing would surprise me misanthrope Jul 2017 #169

Doesn't it sound as if he is exploring his options before tendering his resignation? Texin Jul 2017 #123

If that is the case.... Srkdqltr Jul 2017 #125

There is no right to self de-incrimination bucolic_frolic Jul 2017 #131

The Onion is now officially obsolete. matt819 Jul 2017 #132

This message was self-deleted by its author Jake Stern Jul 2017 #133

Only someone as dumb as Drumpf would think that he could actually pardon himself red dog 1 Jul 2017 #134

Clueless In Washington apkhgp Jul 2017 #137

Under what circumstance would he even consider such thoughts? He has no ties to Russia. ffr Jul 2017 #139

Bush the elder pardoned people who could have testified against him . . FairWinds Jul 2017 #141

I just cannot wrap my head around the idea that Trump might be able to pardon himself. hamsterjill Jul 2017 #143

There is really only one family member Cheetolini* wants to pardon... Raster Jul 2017 #153

What a frikkin carny side show we're in. BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2017 #154

Carnival barker. Props go to President Obama. mobeau69 Jul 2017 #167

Ah, thank you BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2017 #168

I'm pretty sure you can't pardon yourself Dopers_Greed Jul 2017 #156

And why would he even be asking about this if he or the family were clean? calimary Jul 2017 #157

When has Dipshit expressed a curiousity in anything? Thor_MN Jul 2017 #164

Self-pardoning is a very sovereign citizen move jmowreader Jul 2017 #165

If he does that everyone will know that they are without a doubt guilty. n/t Zing Zing Zingbah Jul 2017 #166

Trump will take every extreme unimaginable measure and get away unblemished Awsi Dooger Jul 2017 #170

Yes he can -- and Congress can impeach him for it! Shoonra Jul 2017 #171

The problem with that is Orcrist Jul 2017 #172

To be honest, at this point I don't even care about charges. logosoco Jul 2017 #173

He cannot pardon State crimes in State courts like NY, NJ, etc... Madam45for2923 Jul 2017 #174

He cannot pardon State crimes in State courts like NY, NJ, etc... Madam45for2923 Jul 2017 #176

Convictions are needed to exercise the pardon prerogative bucolic_frolic Jul 2017 #177