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Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
89. While I agree he should not resign,
Sat Nov 25, 2017, 04:58 PM
Nov 2017

This comment, "If he were engaged in a regular pattern of butt-touching there would be a lot more than two complaints," is pretty much what was said before there were two complaints - as a way of dismissing Tweeden.

Because of the internet, the timeline between first complaint and jumping to the conclusion it is a Republican plot because, of course, there would be more if it was real - compared to the time it takes a woman to decide it is worth the risk of ridicule, character assassination, etc. that everyone - including DU - is putting accusers of liberal icons through.

If you decided years ago that it was better to just let things slide, you now have to overcome not only that decision - but the grief that you know you are going to take for not reporting immediately. I'm frankly surprised that two more women showed up this quickly - and I'm pretty sure there will b emore.

That said, I agree with your assessment about zero-tolerance policies. He has acknowledged crossing the line, sincerely apologized, and my sense is that this is a real wake-up call - that things he was doing that he believed were welcome are not necessarily welcome. Especially on this end of the spectrum of nonconsensual touching, I'm willing to give someone who has sincerely apologized and seems to now understand how serious this is, a second chance.

Which brings me to my final point: Please do not minimize the seriousness of "patt{ing} a couple of anonymous women's rear ends." I have been the recipient of such behavior - from someone I considered a friend in nearly identical circumstances. This occurred more than 27 years ago. I vividly remember the horror at feeling his hand fondling my buttocks - in a situation in which it would have been extremely awkward to respond as i would to the aggression of a stranger (we were in public, in the midst of a smaller group of mutual friends). Before I could decide whether to "make a scene" or to just get away from the situation as quickly as I could, it was over. I avoided any contact with him for 18 months - so it effectively ended a friendship with someone with whom I shared leadership in an organization.

After 18 months, he acknowledged that he must have done something to offend me - and asked if we could have a conversation because avoiding each other while we were sharing leadership was not an effective leadership strategy. In the mean time, I told my spouse and one other person about the incident - and wrestled with whether to inform the other leaders of the organization. It is not the most traumatic sexual offense in my life - I've been raped. But it was still not a trivial incident - and while the extended personal interactions would not have been an issue for these women, the question of whether to inform others because of his leadership role would have been.

Which, I guess brings me back full circle. The person who fondled my butt without consent and I are friends again, and it is unfathomable to me that he would ever engage in that conduct again - now that he has the full picture of its impact on me. Franken's apology has the same tone. I believe in second chances for people who are truly remorseful.

I think most of us are just very sensitive of not abandoning our principles for partisan bias. Kentonio Nov 2017 #1
You mean the two anonymous, unsubstantiated second hand accusations? Stinky The Clown Nov 2017 #2
That's the thing though, there were reports that one of the new sources told a journalist Kentonio Nov 2017 #25
Yup, the anonymous unsubstantiated ones..... ollie10 Nov 2017 #28
Roger Stone is sitting back laughing. Historic NY Nov 2017 #36
Yes he is.... ollie10 Nov 2017 #37
Well 2 of the 4 posted on facebook to thier friends about it AT THE TIME it happened krawhitham Nov 2017 #54
So let's throw one of our most effective progressive Senators under the bus The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #62
While I agree he should not resign, Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #89
I don't think butt-patting should be ignored, but I am disturbed The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #90
Well said. Ms. Toad Nov 2017 #91
Only one posted a photo of herself and Franken on Facebook, IIRC. spooky3 Nov 2017 #68
And, unless I'm mistaken, I don't think the actual FB post was ever found, was it? kcr Nov 2017 #76
franken had the nerve to actually count the votes in his senate race questionseverything Nov 2017 #79
It's Important to Make Sure That Sensitivity Isn't Being Manipulated by Skilled Operatives dlk Nov 2017 #7
Sure, I totally agree. The early ones smelled of ratfucking to me Kentonio Nov 2017 #24
Oh you mean the ones that are anonymous? Yeah we should allow the GOP to cook up more Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #38
See I think the second two are even more sketchy. kcr Nov 2017 #45
I don't want him to be guilty. Him being guilty would be horrible for us as a party. Kentonio Nov 2017 #47
Then look at it logically. kcr Nov 2017 #48
Before the latest two allegations came out Kentonio Nov 2017 #51
A feminist choir member. Wow. kcr Nov 2017 #57
If it was a right wing news source, then I'd be just as disbelieving as you Kentonio Nov 2017 #60
Huffpo isn't journalism. It's an internet content farm passing itself off as journalism. kcr Nov 2017 #64
Well, we'll see I guess. Kentonio Nov 2017 #66
Well, if I'm wrong, then it's bad. But, I have the same info everyone else has. kcr Nov 2017 #70
I wanted to add that I do see your POV as well. kcr Nov 2017 #74
Thanks very much for that. Kentonio Nov 2017 #82
He's going to take down the whole party!!! DO SOMETHING! /SARCASM BootinUp Nov 2017 #3
Strange that so many will fight to justify Clinton' behavior Big Blue Marble Nov 2017 #4
Who has done that? lunamagica Nov 2017 #5
This is a moment where he could really do some good loyalsister Nov 2017 #88
Nah, not everyone, just a very specific few. cwydro Nov 2017 #6
Back up the Trolley Horizens Nov 2017 #8
I don't know, but the Russian trolls are gleeful Brother Buzz Nov 2017 #9
It's Obviously the rethug Smear Machine in High Gear Leith Nov 2017 #10
thanks for your concern MFM008 Nov 2017 #11
It appears he singlehandly rescued Roy Moore... 4139 Nov 2017 #12
Well alright then ornotna Nov 2017 #14
It is true those who pile on Franken risk the next two elections and help the Gop. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #39
Who is this "he"? ollie10 Nov 2017 #29
Not everyone. tazkcmo Nov 2017 #13
Al has called for hearings and that's good enough for me. I don't believe these women because OregonBlue Nov 2017 #15
THIS right here Ligyron Nov 2017 #30
If women are not believed... LakeArenal Nov 2017 #50
On the Barton thing, *she* was recording the phone call... moriah Nov 2017 #52
I agree with you. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #40
If by everyone, you mean 3 or 4 very vocal people desperate to score points, Thor_MN Nov 2017 #16
False assumption. dalton99a Nov 2017 #17
Women, you know the people he has sexually harassed mythology Nov 2017 #18
No, I literally don't. The second two are ANONYMOUS, so we don't know them. pnwmom Nov 2017 #19
As far as I am concerned...there are no such women...I feel the first two or liars. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #41
I am a woman. I am 68 and I can guarantee I've known my share of sexual harassment in my life. OregonBlue Nov 2017 #86
I don't see how principles would be compromised by acknowledging the differences. chowder66 Nov 2017 #20
Who was he a threat to when the alleged "set-up" occurred? brooklynite Nov 2017 #21
Stone was Atwaters apprentice riverwalker Nov 2017 #34
I guess you aren't paying attention... LakeArenal Nov 2017 #55
He also made mincemeat of Trump's attorney general in hearings. spooky3 Nov 2017 #69
so democratic gov seigleman had his election stolen questionseverything Nov 2017 #80
Because People Are Sheep! (eom) ProfessorGAC Nov 2017 #22
Jeff Sessons tenderfoot Nov 2017 #23
Not here! democratisphere Nov 2017 #26
He won in a real squeaker. It's a seat republicans can win. unblock Nov 2017 #27
Those here and elsewhere who claim to be progressive are doing he heavy lifting for the GOP...the Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #43
Indeed, the gall of republicans unblock Nov 2017 #63
Exactly right...perfect! I for one maintain that some are piling on because deep down in their Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #87
Keep depending on past elections.... LakeArenal Nov 2017 #56
Franken has done a great job strengthening his grip on his seat unblock Nov 2017 #61
Exactly LakeArenal Nov 2017 #67
You are thinking of 2008. 2014 was a different story. Thor_MN Nov 2017 #72
Ah, you're right. It would be more effective if he was up in 2018. unblock Nov 2017 #75
They are after headlines like this: (yahoo) "Franken's rising political star obscured by accusations bagelsforbreakfast Nov 2017 #31
Rush to Judgement delisen Nov 2017 #32
He's a threat to Jeff Sessions, among others Maeve Nov 2017 #33
Jeff Sessions. Historic NY Nov 2017 #35
Everyone? DBoon Nov 2017 #42
Franken is one of the two or three most informed, aggressive and effective Democratic Senators mn9driver Nov 2017 #44
Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #46
Your belief is mistaken. mn9driver Nov 2017 #49
Let them come forward and swear under oath Thekaspervote Nov 2017 #53
Because we liberals like to polish our own halos The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #58
Once we write off Franken, Turbineguy Nov 2017 #59
I wish I could articulate a principle, but I just know... LAS14 Nov 2017 #65
Partisan Republicans (implicated as Russian lapdogs) are in charge. librechik Nov 2017 #71
Placing orthodoxy before observable reality isn't a uniquely Republican trait Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2017 #73
Everyone??? Lil Missy Nov 2017 #77
I'm not. End of story. DFW Nov 2017 #78
How many need to come forward before we believe them? Clearly four is not enough for "Progressives" krawhitham Nov 2017 #81
Whatever punishment is meted out has to fit the crime. alarimer Nov 2017 #83
We have to show the right that we go high when they go low, CrispyQ Nov 2017 #84
That's the idea but it's stupid. The R will not follow any example we set pnwmom Nov 2017 #85
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