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petronius

(26,602 posts)
36. Not convoluted at all - as I said in the OP, concerns about CCW on campus
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 08:13 PM
Jan 2014

seem to be based on unsupported assumptions about how CCW holders behave in public as well as some misapprehensions about what the university environment is really like. What's convoluted is the idea that a purely private act would be a distraction, when that hypothetical distraction isn't occurring anywhere else that the private act is allowed. I base my logic on the following points:

  • People are already carrying in other places without causing a disruption or having a chilling effect, and there's no reason that would be different on campus.
  • The students who would have the ability to carry on campus are already on campus (albeit leaving their firearms behind). They're apparently not creating a chilling violent ruckus now, so why would they suddenly start to if allowed to carry?
  • As stressful as college may be, classroom discussions are not generally violent events - if students aren't throwing chairs and punches now, why expect that they'd throw bullets?
  • Students who hypothetically would be discomfited by the possible presence of a CCWer are likely already around CCWers off-campus, yet that knowledge does not seem to cause any disruption off-campus.
All of these points suggest to me that there is no real reason to treat campuses differently than anywhere else in the matter of CCW permittees. If it's allowed elsewhere without a problem, it should be allowed on campus. As far as I can tell, the argument against campus-carry (and CCW in general) boils down to a matter of personal opinion. It's fine to think that CCW is distasteful or worse - but that dislike doesn't and shouldn't carry any weight in how the law limits or restricts the choices of others.

"Qualified" means 'eligible; conforming to predefined criteria; meeting a relevant standard.' I've given my opinion elsewhere, but I think CCW should be shall-issue with a comprehensive (i.e. non-trivial) training requirement. It should not be a 'library card,' and those with the legal privilege to carry in public should in fact meet a reasonable standard. A qualification, in other words, that would be just as applicable on campus as off. (And while I'm not a Texan, what I've read about that state's system makes me think you might be underestimating the requirements there.)

I should make clear that I'm referring to public schools here. Private school administrators should be allowed to set whatever rules they want in this regard, but public universities should remain as aligned as possible with the rest of the public sphere. Absent a compelling reason to treat campuses differently - which does not exist in this case, beyond some unfounded fears - the campus should allow individuals to make their own choice in the matter (in accordance with state/federal laws)...
So, based on your argument, guns in class make it a safer environment for learning and discussion? Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #1
My argument is that there is no compelling reason to treat university spaces petronius Jan 2014 #2
In principle, I agree with you Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #17
I don't agree that there is anything incendiary or disruptive about a petronius Jan 2014 #23
Really? You don;t see it? Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #29
Not convoluted at all - as I said in the OP, concerns about CCW on campus petronius Jan 2014 #36
I appreciate your thoughtful reply Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #42
No but makes for a safer environment for going across campus in the middle of the night. gejohnston Jan 2014 #4
I always love it when men use female vulnerability to justify carrying guns around. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #18
mostly because they are buying guns in greater numbers gejohnston Jan 2014 #21
Trying to convince everybody who carried concealed that they have a mental defect... krispos42 Jan 2014 #28
Not a mental defect, but a behavioral disorder. And not everyone. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #30
I think I will decide ..... oldhippie Jan 2014 #31
Did I say I would decide? I thought not. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #33
You decided that a classroom ..... oldhippie Jan 2014 #34
Prefaced by "I think" Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #37
Uh, a decision is an opinion oldhippie Jan 2014 #39
If it's not scary for you, then it isn't for me. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #40
The hippie time was a long time ago ...... oldhippie Jan 2014 #41
Virtually every hippy I knew/know had a gun or knew how to use one. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #43
Right. LOL Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #44
The world is a big place; almost as big as your mind. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #45
The problem with "certain times and in certain places" krispos42 Jan 2014 #35
Depends on the individual and threat assessment. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #38
Won't make a difference. This prof is speculating Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #46
You equate classrooms with pool halls, restaurants and feed lots? Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #49
But wait! There's more! Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #50
Absolutely. Straw Man Jan 2014 #51
Of course, I think it ridiculous to carry in any of those places. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #53
I know that you do. Straw Man Jan 2014 #54
CC puts innocent bystanders at risk pscot Jan 2014 #3
How so? gejohnston Jan 2014 #5
People with guns are a danger to themselves and everyone around them. pscot Jan 2014 #6
depending on where you are Duckhunter935 Jan 2014 #7
Now why don't I find that reassuring? pscot Jan 2014 #10
do you understand the definition of vigilante? gejohnston Jan 2014 #11
Read your history, dude pscot Jan 2014 #12
I know history quite well. gejohnston Jan 2014 #13
Read your dictionary, dude. Straw Man Jan 2014 #14
With that attitude I hope you don't live in NYC clffrdjk Jan 2014 #8
Or LA Duckhunter935 Jan 2014 #9
Did you forget what the CC stands for? Jenoch Jan 2014 #15
"Gun Chi", we've had a few folks here who claimed they could "just tell" DonP Jan 2014 #19
"One of them has been banned, ..." Jenoch Jan 2014 #22
It is the same one who claimed a bicycle tire was a acceptable defensive item. oneshooter Jan 2014 #25
I enjoy a good debate, but that one Jenoch Jan 2014 #26
There's gotta be an app for that. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #47
I had both a shotgun and a rifle in my college dorm room, Jenoch Jan 2014 #16
I agree with your hypothosis on Mash's erroneous assumptions. ManiacJoe Jan 2014 #20
Very well said. Bazinga Jan 2014 #24
In my experience... krispos42 Jan 2014 #27
Why do they discount Virginia Tech and NIU? DonP Jan 2014 #32
Alcohol Free Dorms HockeyMom Jan 2014 #52
Try to pay attention to the subject under discussion DonP Jan 2014 #55
Not "feel" but BE and LIVE around guns HockeyMom Jan 2014 #56
So, you know a lot of 21+ year olds that still live in dorms huh? DonP Jan 2014 #57
You start college at 18 HockeyMom Jan 2014 #58
You really don't know Jack Shit about this do you? DonP Jan 2014 #59
There's a BIG difference between... Bazinga Jan 2014 #60
My experience at UF (C.'70): Upper division courses met in the Rathskeller. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #48
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