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2016 Postmortem

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H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:55 PM Feb 2016

Who We Are [View all]

One of the more common rhetorical errors that supporters of Hillary Clinton make is to dismiss the concerns that others express as rehashes of the old, rabid right-wing attacks on her character from the 1990s. This is a debating tactic that attempts to score points while simultaneously distracting attention from valid concerns that many good Democrats have expressed about Ms. Clinton. The use of that tactic, in the context of the current Democratic primary, can only be attributed to one of two factors. Let’s take a moment to consider each of the two.

The first, and most common, is that the Clinton supporter resorting to this technique recognizes that the opposition has valid concerns, but is unwilling to address them. This suggests the Clinton supporter knows the concern is valid, and potentially harmful to their candidate in the primary. Thus, they attempt to divert attention to the issue, by insulting the intelligence and/or integrity of the people who sincerely pose it.

The second is that the Clinton supporter is unfamiliar with the issue, and in their ignorance, assume it is not valid. Thus, they conclude it must be a republican smear. This illustrates the shortcomings of concrete, binary thinking: one must, by definition, be either pro-Hillary, or a victim of republican propaganda. This brings to mind Mark Twain’s saying that the problem in the world today is not so much one of ignorance, as of people knowing so darned much that just isn’t so.

For sake of discussion, I shall offer myself -- DU’s humble H2O Man -- and two of my concerns about Hillary Clinton, as examples. As I have previously stated, I will support either Democratic candidate who wins our party’s nomination. Yet, I am definitely supporting Bernie Sanders. This is because I prefer his political program, and have great respect for his values and integrity. Now, let’s take a brief glance at those two pesky issues, shall we?

The first is that Hillary Clinton has been a strong advocate of hydro-fracking. I would note that her high-profile advocacy has been in recent times ….not the 1990s. More, relatively few republican officials -- at a local, state, or national level -- oppose fracking. I’ve yet to see a single republican attack Ms. Clinton on this issue. Nor, for that matter, have I seen any large, multi-national “energy” corporation engage in vicious attacks upon her character due to her pro-fracking positions.

The second would be the money that Hillary Clinton made for speaking to Goldman Sachs. This issue includes her refusal to release the transcripts of the speeches. Again, I think we could all agree that the speeches in question took place after Hillary’s time as First Lady. I will speculate, however, that if Hillary is our nominee, the republicans will seek to exploit her refusal to release the transcripts, for republicans have no shame. None.

These are important “values” issues for me. Fracking poses much the same danger to the water that human beings and other living things consume, as the horrors in Flint. Both involve politicians and business interests who are willing to poison human beings for financial gain. And, far too often, the government’s decisions on this issue have been made behind closed doors, in private, off-the-record conversations between politicians and corporations.

It is an issue that I feel strongly about, and not because of any republican propaganda from the 1990s. Or current republican lies, for that matter. Indeed, it is a value that I take full personal responsibility for. I admit to preferring clean water to toxic sludge.

The manner in which I advocate for clean water, however, has been heavily influenced, not by republicans or energy corporations, but by the decades that I served as the top assistant to Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman. In those many years, I saw Paul serve on the Onondaga Nation’s Council of Chiefs; the Haudenosaunee Grand Council of Chiefs (Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy); and as the Gauyesa Toyentha in dealings with the United Nations and the rest of the non-Indian world.

Hence, as a few older DU community members may recall, a few years back, I engaged in a hunger strike, in an attempt to convince a state senator to meet with the environmental community to discuss fracking. This fellow, who received many thousands of dollars from the Koch brothers, had dismissed environmentalists -- including scientists at top universities -- as mere tree-huggers. He has since been convicted of political corruption in federal court. His and my value systems were, and are, distinct.

The people who are supporting Bernie Sanders today are, in my opinion, much the same as those who used to come to hear Chief Waterman’s message when we spoke in small towns and large cities, to students and environmentalists, to people who believed that our society needed to change in order to survive. They are the same people who found it unacceptable when a state senator refused to talk to them, but was comfortable as a lap dog for corporate interests. They are people who think for themselves, and act for others.

Thank you,
H2O Man

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Who We Are [View all] H2O Man Feb 2016 OP
K&R..... daleanime Feb 2016 #1
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #24
K&R too islandmkl Feb 2016 #2
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #25
Thank you, H2O Man... k8conant Feb 2016 #3
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #26
I think there is a third possible reason for their "right wing attack" characterization tk2kewl Feb 2016 #4
Dem = LW, not-Dem = RW MisterP Feb 2016 #9
that's the end game of neoliberal economics tk2kewl Feb 2016 #14
Right. H2O Man Feb 2016 #32
the "not a Dem" argument falls into the tribal category for sure tk2kewl Feb 2016 #35
It's gotten really rough Saviolo Feb 2016 #44
Look I am Native American... Rockyj Feb 2016 #59
I agree with this. It's an in-group-outgroup thing eridani Feb 2016 #60
Saving our planet and HRC's support for more war are my two big issues Arazi Feb 2016 #5
Very good! H2O Man Feb 2016 #34
I think folks dismiss right wing attacks bigtree Feb 2016 #6
I agree with that. H2O Man Feb 2016 #38
I have a question regarding the general election. Gregorian Feb 2016 #7
You are correct. H2O Man Feb 2016 #39
Thank you! haikugal Feb 2016 #8
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #40
Thank you, great op Voice for Peace Feb 2016 #10
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #48
AIR WATER FOOD - we must get these things right SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #11
Right. H2O Man Feb 2016 #49
Thank you for your activism Matariki Feb 2016 #12
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #50
Excellent, as always. Punkingal Feb 2016 #13
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #51
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #15
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #52
As a Clinton critic long before the first one left office stupidicus Feb 2016 #16
Very interesting. H2O Man Feb 2016 #57
Most of the "free thinking" Democratic Party seems to actively avoid debate/discussion these days. MadDAsHell Feb 2016 #17
So true casperthegm Feb 2016 #23
If you came recently you picked an especially bad time. I lurked for years and it's usually... MadDAsHell Feb 2016 #27
Right. H2O Man Feb 2016 #58
that explanation makes sense to me re: Trump nt kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #63
I don't think so, re Trump. malthaussen Feb 2016 #88
Very well said! H2O Man Feb 2016 #90
Great post. davidthegnome Feb 2016 #18
Thanks, David! H2O Man Feb 2016 #64
One thing -- Obama did not vote on the IWR. JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #89
Kick! thereismore Feb 2016 #19
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #65
knr and GASP! retrowire Feb 2016 #20
Thank you. H2O Man Feb 2016 #66
K & R... Another very thought-provoking post; thanks! (eom) mak3cats Feb 2016 #21
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #67
With you all the way on that and add in protections mmonk Feb 2016 #22
Absolutely! H2O Man Feb 2016 #68
Your considered, reasoned voice in this forum annabanana Feb 2016 #28
Thank you, Anna B! H2O Man Feb 2016 #69
K&R angrychair Feb 2016 #29
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #72
wonderful, wonderful post. thank you, H2O Man roguevalley Feb 2016 #30
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #73
K&R Mbrow Feb 2016 #31
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #74
Not much to add, here. malthaussen Feb 2016 #33
Right. H2O Man Feb 2016 #75
Highly recommended. Thanks once again. Ron Green Feb 2016 #36
Great point, Ron. H2O Man Feb 2016 #76
K & R! Well said! beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #37
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #77
Thank you. K/R 840high Feb 2016 #41
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #78
K&R&H2O dchill Feb 2016 #42
Thank you, Friend dchill! H2O Man Feb 2016 #79
Outstanding post. hifiguy Feb 2016 #43
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #80
Thank you for another thoughtful post, H20 Man. democrank Feb 2016 #45
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #81
Well said. Zorra Feb 2016 #46
Thanks, Zorra. H2O Man Feb 2016 #83
"... needs to change, in order to survive..." immoderate Feb 2016 #47
Exactly right! H2O Man Feb 2016 #84
Another great post! rosesaylavee Feb 2016 #53
Thank you, my Good Friend! H2O Man Feb 2016 #85
Now your DU handle is clear...thank you for your work for all of these years and for this post. libdem4life Feb 2016 #54
Thanks, libdem4life! H2O Man Feb 2016 #86
Thank you, H2O Man.... As always, words of wisdom and truth bring peace nt kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #55
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #87
Kick azmom Feb 2016 #56
K&R for another excellent post, H2O Man... ms liberty Feb 2016 #61
Wonderful essay. K&R myrna minx Feb 2016 #62
K&R Proud to be a tree hugger. Proud to stand with you. nt raouldukelives Feb 2016 #70
This message was self-deleted by its author Sensitive soul Feb 2016 #71
KnR for visibility. nt tblue37 Feb 2016 #82
Get This to the TOP of the page! Excellent Post, Thank You again! 2banon Feb 2016 #91
kick for more eyeballs opportunities..... good read nt kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #92
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