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(29,048 posts)
33. Pinebox. Great post.
Fri May 20, 2016, 11:06 AM
May 2016

I'd thought about this before even though I've been an ardent dem my whole life. This time around, the party is betraying its own democratic principles. I am not so narrow-mindedly tribal as to put party above principles.

What this comes down to for me: what are our best chances for rooting out the big money/crony-power corruption that has led to spending $ on wars and subsidizing big biz instead of on strengthening our society and protecting the planet?

Among the more salient points in the article for me were 1) the symbolic caving to the imperviousness/omnipotence of corporate/political corruption if he endorses Clinton and 2) he would've gotten more votes than her if, as in the GE, the "closed" and other registration restrictions hadn't constrained so many of his supporters.

Re: that 2nd point, I see her electability on its own terms as about to start dropping, independently of either Sanders or tRump. Coming into view on the nearing horizon: front page news of gross negligence re:her unsecured server, at a minimum (according to a combo of statements from DOJ, the FOIA judge and formerly highly ranking federal officials and legal experts). Moving forward, a likely further decline in her numbers during the GE, when wave after wave of bad news is likely regarding the Foundation's corruption being tied to her actions as SOS. Moreover, Billy-boy's deplorable record with women is going to alienate many women from her side with the specter of him in the White House. In sum: my view is that since she is barely keeping up with tRump now and he is going to become better presented as the GE moves forward (as he aligns and gets primped by the GOP) she will lose to tRump.

So, even if I weren't lined up with Bernie, I hope I would see that he is the more electable dem candidate in the GE. If the superdels don't see this, or are too politically cowardly to break rank and nominate him, who becomes POTUS: tRump.

Putting this together: if Bernie were to run as a Green, he would get:
- the small percentage Green-or-bust vote,
- the Bernie-or-bust vote,
- huge percentage of the under-45 vote
- a large swath of the indie vote (many who would otherwise vote for tRump over Clinton),
- a large swath of rethugs who can't stomach tRump (or think he'll hurt the party - there are many now, including many who voted for Cruz, etc) and would otherwise vote for Clinton
- a lot of Dems who voted for Clinton because they didn't really know about Bernie or believed her hype that she was more electable/effective
- a growing number of women who voted for her but become alienated by Bill's predatory history

I can see Bernie beating both of them. I loathe the Nader effect but what we are looking at in 2016 is a different set of candidates altogether -2 of the least popular and both under legal scrutiny - and a live, passionate and principled movement.

Interesting points chwaliszewski May 2016 #1
It really is an interesting topic for conversation. pinebox May 2016 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Colors May 2016 #17
The long shot black guy won in 08 against the same system Sanders is losing in and he's whining abou uponit7771 May 2016 #3
It won't happen and the movement is bigger than this election cycle. JRLeft May 2016 #4
Did you read first reply? pinebox May 2016 #5
Yes I did and like I said it doesn't matter what he does. JRLeft May 2016 #9
Sure they are pinebox May 2016 #10
Most of them will though and I can't blame the ones who won't. JRLeft May 2016 #13
Personally I don't think most will pinebox May 2016 #18
It wouldn't bother me if most of them didn't. JRLeft May 2016 #20
Same pinebox May 2016 #21
... LexVegas May 2016 #6
Any comment? Anything? Bueller? pinebox May 2016 #7
The self-destruction is delightful. nt LexVegas May 2016 #8
Self destruction? pinebox May 2016 #12
Your first reply is saying Bernie will be a hypocrite when he endorses Clinton....which he will. LexVegas May 2016 #15
I'm not sure he will pinebox May 2016 #19
This comment just demonstrates that you actually are condoning third party. barrow-wight May 2016 #24
Are you aware of the rules? pinebox May 2016 #30
The only Smurfs I know anything about are the cartoons. barrow-wight May 2016 #40
Why does the Hillary symbol have a red arrow pointing to the right? chwaliszewski May 2016 #14
Hey, thanks for pointing that out! brooklynite May 2016 #23
I realize you're being facetious, but... chwaliszewski May 2016 #29
No. Just callow, sore winnerism. chwaliszewski May 2016 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Colors May 2016 #16
+1 Independents and Bernie Rs would have no problem with jwirr May 2016 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Colors May 2016 #36
Exactly. jwirr May 2016 #39
Speculation by a Canadian blog, backed up with no evidence. brooklynite May 2016 #22
If he lost, that would be the end of his Senate career. I am so torn on this. He said he GreenPartyVoter May 2016 #25
I semi- disagree pinebox May 2016 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Colors May 2016 #37
Only makes sense if there is a 4th party candidate lapfog_1 May 2016 #26
Actually if there is nobody who wins 270 then the Republican House picks. forjusticethunders May 2016 #27
If we know whats good for us madokie May 2016 #28
With Clinton as a running mate, even! Orsino May 2016 #32
Pinebox. Great post. JudyM May 2016 #33
This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Colors May 2016 #38
It lost me at the blanket statement that all superdelegates are corrupt. apnu May 2016 #35
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Bernie Sanders’ Real ‘Pol...»Reply #33