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cloudythescribbler

(2,596 posts)
113. The attitude of the OP and many of the posters here of express hostility to Bernie ONLY helps Trump
Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:55 AM
Jul 2016

I know that many of the posters at least implicity believe that Hillary has the election in the bag, and that virtually all of Bernie's base will unite behind her no matter what she does (including making NO further concessions on the platform, not letting him address the Convention after getting 45% of the vote in the primary campaign, etc). Also, his continuing political struggle -- his campaign was AlWAYS about more than just a particular political campaign, but building a political base for a political transformation and a movement for it continuing after the election -- is routinely cast as based on egoism, desire for the limelight, fractiousness, spite, whatever. All of this is in my arrogant opinion (IMAO) sheer nonsense. But above all, neither HRC nor her surrogates all the way down to the grassroots have ANY rational motive for doing this if their goal is to beat Trump in November.

I have been a Bernie supporter since day 1 (and wanted to see him run, AS A DEMOCRAT IN THE PRIMARIES, before "day 1&quot and support his continued efforts focused on the platform. I have always said I would vote for Hillary against Trump if she got the nomination. But there are MANY Bernie supporters -- maybe no longer heard from on DU -- who feel otherwise. I am NOT convinced that already over 80% of Bernie's supporters have lined up behind Hillary; some posters in recent months reported that their many political colleagues IN SWING STATES WHERE THEY WERE were not going to vote for Hillary and many working class Bernie supporters (nowhere near a majority but still) were considering voting for Trump.

As for the convention, I would NOT assume that all the Hillary delegates will be as disciplined and as staying on message as the Hillary/DebbieWassermanSchultz folk were on the platform committee in general. There might be many platform issues that will get delegates' support across the divide, and be stopped if at all only by the superdelegates. This is healthy democracy and could help the Convention be other than an absolute bore.

Many of the issues (like opposing TPP and more issues on climate, like a suggestion I have been pushing for calling for nationally televised hearings in the Senate -- even in the likely event that the GOP maintain their gerrymandority in the House -- on the 350.org climate issues, as well as platform and other debates about 'closed primaries' and such) are issues that would NOT cost any cumulative number of swing votes in the general. I support a position to the left of Bernie on Palestinian rights, but I know that many Democrats feel strongly that this issue might cost votes in November; on the other hand, it might have a lot of support among many of Hillary's delegates.

The mean-spirited attitude towards Bernie and on any of these platform issues (as if he had no right to seek changes at all, without anything less than having won the primary campaign) ONLY WILL TEND TO ENCOURAGE THE MANY BERNIE SUPPORTERS WHO ARE NOT necessarily going to show up and vote and vote for Hillary in the general. (Honestly, my worry in this area is specifically in the swing states, with little concern if people in NY or CA or MA choose to vote for Jill Stein or something. It is where the election might be close that is crucial -- and constant Bernie-bashing as a temperament will, eg, only tend to drive Bernie's base away. I'll bet more than 20% have either left DU (temporarily or permanently) or are just holding back from participating. Some would say 'good riddance' but this is precisely the problem. Is the goal to WIN the election or, in losing it, blame Bernie and his base?

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I thought Sanders wanted platform planks. Turns out, he only wants a fight? merrily Jul 2016 #1
He'll be completely shut out, then. eom MohRokTah Jul 2016 #2
Good luck with that AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #3
I don't see why shutting him out would be difficult. Lord Magus Jul 2016 #8
It would be easy, and stupid AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #10
Meh... most grown ups know, throwing out threats will result in people doing what is necessary to seabeyond Jul 2016 #14
Pure speculation AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #31
Listening to Sanders and taking him at his words, along with his supporters. At what point are we seabeyond Jul 2016 #33
+ a million! eom BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #68
Sanders is one of the few politicians whom you can trust to speak truth to power. InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2016 #105
I disagree. I know that is the meme, but I did not find the reality in his campaign. I think, seabeyond Jul 2016 #107
I respect your opinion, but disagree strenuously with your dim view of Bernie. His influence over the party platform speaks to his non-establishment pedigree. InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2016 #109
Why would she emulate Sanders when being herself gained 4-million more votes than Sanders? stopbush Jul 2016 #111
This is just one of many oddities. Clinton success thru out the campaign. Historical success. seabeyond Jul 2016 #115
Sanders has not been vetted. I on the other hand, researched Sanders when he first threw his hat in. seabeyond Jul 2016 #114
Perhaps getting shut out is his goal. JaneQPublic Jul 2016 #39
I had heard but not positive, that he already registered as Independent for his senate run. seabeyond Jul 2016 #42
+1 JaneQPublic Jul 2016 #43
Offended here too, but anti-Democrats on both Hortensis Jul 2016 #75
Back in April, Weaver confirmed that Sanders would remain a Democrat for life, post-primaries caquillo Jul 2016 #45
I disagree with Weaver. Pretty certain he won't but what do I know. I'm not even willing to invest seabeyond Jul 2016 #47
He is already set up to run as an Independent in 2018, even has his campaign committee registered... George II Jul 2016 #102
The rules are clear. MohRokTah Jul 2016 #25
There have been a large number of compromises made to platform Gothmog Jul 2016 #59
Will the 1,879 Sanders delegates be shut out as well? David__77 Jul 2016 #51
It would take a vote of 3,177 delegates in favor of suspending the rules in order to allow.... MohRokTah Jul 2016 #53
I never said that Clinton delegates would support Sanders speaking. David__77 Jul 2016 #54
Only one of his delegates will be allowed to speak. MohRokTah Jul 2016 #56
I don't personally think that is what will happen. David__77 Jul 2016 #60
I judge potential future behavior on past actions. MohRokTah Jul 2016 #61
I can understand that. David__77 Jul 2016 #62
IT will definitely be well managed. MohRokTah Jul 2016 #64
Thank you for providing real BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #69
How would they be "shut out"? They'll be at the convention and will be permitted to participate... George II Jul 2016 #101
The platform will be, as always, a compromise. MineralMan Jul 2016 #4
Not sure fight is right word Funtatlaguy Jul 2016 #5
This^^^ thank you! Silver_Witch Jul 2016 #12
Sanders, a non Democrat who is still registered as Independent, running senate as Independent seabeyond Jul 2016 #15
Bingo! tonyt53 Jul 2016 #22
45% say otherwise. GeorgeGist Jul 2016 #26
You're absolutely correct...and the system we have is that the majority wins brooklynite Jul 2016 #27
No, 45% voted for him in the primary elections, but those are over (nt) LongtimeAZDem Jul 2016 #30
35 to 65.... bettyellen Jul 2016 #66
No. The number is not 45%. Much lower. Like 35%, regardless the votes spoke. Also, another point seabeyond Jul 2016 #32
Do not neglect the fact that many of those that voted for Sanders sis so in an open primary. tonyt53 Jul 2016 #37
He can do whatever he wants AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #34
He can do whatever he wants. Calling all of us 'establishment' is suppose seabeyond Jul 2016 #36
He has been in public office for 30 years... tallahasseedem Jul 2016 #63
Politico click-bait. Orsino Jul 2016 #48
True, Hillary is the presumptive nominee, but she'd be smart to take Bernie's wise counsel seriously, as it would only benefit her in the general. InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2016 #108
Bernie wise? C'mon. Did you read his plans for funding healthcare? stopbush Jul 2016 #112
This would be one. The College plan though, I think is the most clear on the unlevel playing seabeyond Jul 2016 #116
On the face of it, this country should be able to fund free college for all stopbush Jul 2016 #123
You seriously are bringin Reagan into a discussion about Bernie's brilliance?! I read somewhere Bernie's IQ is over 140... Reagan was a blithering idiot! InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2016 #124
My IQ is over 140. So what? stopbush Jul 2016 #125
As David Corn's headline today reads: Can Bernie Take Yes For An Answer? CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #6
I don't believe he ever will take yes for an answer MO_Dem Jul 2016 #23
The train has already left the station BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #70
Hilarious. bvf Jul 2016 #73
Look, Sanders mouths off shit about Denocrats or Clinton, people will address. That simple. seabeyond Jul 2016 #83
There's a world of difference bvf Jul 2016 #85
Sanders lost his relevance. More petulance and people do not respect that. And still, insult all seabeyond Jul 2016 #86
Irrelevant enough to keep you posting. Uh huh. I see. bvf Jul 2016 #88
I find Sanders fascinating. Hence, continued conversation. That does not equate to relevance. seabeyond Jul 2016 #89
Fascinating but irrelevant. bvf Jul 2016 #90
Fascinating, hell yes. What privilege and entitlement looks like so very clearly. seabeyond Jul 2016 #91
*Do* go on. bvf Jul 2016 #93
Go on with what? I said what I wanted to say. If you do not see that we have progressed forward seabeyond Jul 2016 #94
The only thing on me bvf Jul 2016 #98
There is no need for any of us to be mean to other members. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #99
You must be lots of fun at parties. lapucelle Jul 2016 #126
Which alternative are you performing here? Cary Jul 2016 #120
I haven't seen many posts bashing Sanders in recent weeks, and the few that have.... George II Jul 2016 #103
He's itching for a spotlight. It seems to be a drug sufrommich Jul 2016 #7
More than anything. You are right WhiteTara Jul 2016 #13
To bathe in the light, lol. Ya. But, he would have actually gotten to do that if he had walked seabeyond Jul 2016 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #17
Does he want his entire platform adopted? Lord Magus Jul 2016 #9
Yup! pandr32 Jul 2016 #55
They started rallying for it a month ago. Why would we pretend otherwise. It behooves Democrats to seabeyond Jul 2016 #11
It really sounds like he's experiencing an end-of-life crisis. randome Jul 2016 #18
It's just a rash. nt. NCTraveler Jul 2016 #19
At this point, it might be the only reasonable answer. tonyt53 Jul 2016 #21
NPR played a few lines form the Biden interview that will be played this weekend. tonyt53 Jul 2016 #20
This is just getting sad now. JaneyVee Jul 2016 #24
No. This was getting sad on the first Super Tuesday. nolawarlock Jul 2016 #79
This appears to be a re-run of 1992... brooklynite Jul 2016 #28
Such a difficult sheepdog. Bad, Bernie, bad. aikoaiko Jul 2016 #29
Wow, who cares? MoonRiver Jul 2016 #35
Many. n/t Jester Messiah Jul 2016 #52
I will be there and will ready to stand up to Sanders' sad demands Gothmog Jul 2016 #38
These are sad demands? "...a $15 minimum wage, opposition to TPP, and a ban on fracking directly MelissaB Jul 2016 #41
The Minimum wage was agreed to last week Gothmog Jul 2016 #57
What's sad is his inability to actively work with the Democratic Party. randome Jul 2016 #58
What's sad is that he feels entitled to have his every demand met even though he lost. Lord Magus Jul 2016 #67
Oi! MelissaB Jul 2016 #71
Who? zappaman Jul 2016 #40
He is irrelevant at this point MaggieD Jul 2016 #44
Couldn't agree more, absolutely spot on... Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #50
Couldn't havesaid it any better! AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #78
Yes. Cary Jul 2016 #121
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #46
Whatever...anything to stay on the national stage. Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #49
More silliness. nt BootinUp Jul 2016 #65
Hopefully this is being seen by the GOP the way it looks to the average citizen. nt eastwestdem Jul 2016 #72
He's not going to get one mcar Jul 2016 #74
Well, I never. . . floriduck Jul 2016 #76
He should be banned from the convention. Bernie - you lost. You're not the nominee. Now get lost. Lil Missy Jul 2016 #77
It's the spotlight ... NanceGreggs Jul 2016 #80
What the hell is he thinking... RazBerryBeret Jul 2016 #81
Correction.... pokerfan Jul 2016 #82
right.... RazBerryBeret Jul 2016 #84
Democrats have been fighting Democratic values long before Sanders voice came into play. seabeyond Jul 2016 #87
Nice Freudian slip, there. bvf Jul 2016 #92
When you put it that way... (nt) pokerfan Jul 2016 #95
How you get to reshape the Democratic Party? You win the nomination! CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #96
oh c'mon man oasis Jul 2016 #97
An itch? This works: MineralMan Jul 2016 #100
+10 Agnosticsherbet Jul 2016 #104
Here is a good article by Noam Chomsky: this is why Bernie is doing what he is YOHABLO Jul 2016 #106
Here is the truth. I do not care why or what we think is the reason, Sanders is doing what he is. seabeyond Jul 2016 #117
Too bad he's not itching to get out there and campaign stopbush Jul 2016 #110
The attitude of the OP and many of the posters here of express hostility to Bernie ONLY helps Trump cloudythescribbler Jul 2016 #113
Over 80% of Sanders supporters have already walked into Clintons camp. You get that, right? seabeyond Jul 2016 #118
as I suggested in the post, I am less than positive about that 80% figure widely bandied about cloudythescribbler Jul 2016 #119
Ya, whatever. You get to believe what you want. seabeyond Jul 2016 #122
Go home and take a nap, Bernie. mwrguy Jul 2016 #127
No fight to be had...he lost beachbumbob Jul 2016 #128
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