Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Democratic Primaries

In reply to the discussion: Sanders can't win [View all]
 

vsrazdem

(2,177 posts)
114. Sanders voters did not cause Hillary the election.
Sun Jan 19, 2020, 03:28 AM
Jan 2020
http://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/did-bernie-sanders-cost-hillary-clinton-the-presidency/
There are many proximate causes for Clinton’s loss, and I think you can divide them into three broad categories:

The Comey Letter: Perhaps the best validated of any of the causes of her loss, there are numerous proximate causes here: her decision to use a private email server, the Benghazi witch hunt, her husband’s visit with Loretta Lynch on the Phoenix airport tarmac, Lynch’s failure to stop Comey, Clinton’s willingness to keep Huma Abedin as an aide, Abedin’s willingness to stay with Anthony Weiner, Weiner’s willingness to send sexually-explicit messages to people other than his wife, Comey’s decision to send the letter to Congress, and so on.

Exogenous events: These are harder to prove, but you could make the case for any of these items outside of Clinton’s control costing her those 78,000 crucial votes: the media’s constant focus on her email server, President Obama’s failure to nominate a Supreme Court nominee that’d drive African-American or Latino turnout, people voting for third parties, the Russian disinformation campaign against her, etc.

The Clinton campaign’s own actions: the failure to seriously defend Michigan and Wisconsin, the allocation of resources to stretch states instead of the Blue Wall, the focus on personal appeal (never high for Clinton ) instead of her policy positions (more popular than Trump’s), calling half of Trump voters deplorable, focusing on data analytics and voter modeling instead of actually doing the hard work of turning the base out, generally losing a campaign where she was favored and had more resources.

Certainly all of those are more compelling proximate causes than Sanders, but is Sanders himself a proximate cause? Again, I don’t think he is unless you assume that Clinton would have had no serious primary opposition. I don’t dispute the fact that he did end up costing her some votes. And her 78,000-vote loss was certainly slim enough that it can have multiple proximate causes. I’d be willing to state that Bernie Sanders might have cost Clinton the election if no serious primary challenger emerged in the counterfactual. In Pennsylvania, Clinton would have needed around a quarter of the Sanders voters who didn’t vote for her to have changed their votes to win. How many of those people were among the 20% of Democrats who didn’t approve of Clinton before Sanders even entered the race? My guess is most of those people weren’t going to vote for Clinton anyway, but I doubt we can ever be sure.

If you’re a Clinton voter angry at Sanders, is that more compelling than any of the reasons listed above? I don’t think so. And if you want Democrats to win back the presidency in 2020, wouldn’t it make more sense to dwell on issues that had a bigger impact, and focus on the ones that you can control going forward? I could understand relitigating the 2016 primary if it had caused serious damage, but the fighting appears to be based more on rehashing old grievances than actually winning voters back into the Democratic Party. Frankly, if there’s any Democrat other than Clinton deserving of Democratic ire, it’s President Obama. It was his neglect of the DNC (he’d been told that Debbie Wasserman Schultz should be ousted as early as 2012) that led to widespread grassroots distrust of the party. It was his naiveté that Republicans would actually consider voting for Merrick Garland that prevented him from nominating an African-American or Latino nominee to the court that could’ve made the Supreme Court a bigger issue for Democrats. And it was his administration that didn’t stop the Comey Letter or publicize Russian interference in the election. If you want to start an intraparty squabble, it’s those types of mistakes that the party should seek to avoid repeating.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
Sanders can't win [View all] Wawannabe Jan 2020 OP
Yes indeed... comradebillyboy Jan 2020 #1
"Yes indeed" adds nothing to a discussion. DemocracyMouse Jan 2020 #87
What are you? The post police? Do I need to have you approve the comradebillyboy Jan 2020 #95
Debate, don't deflate bro. Happy to see your logic DemocracyMouse Jan 2020 #112
Polling boomer_wv Jan 2020 #109
he doesnt get mine in the primary but if hes the Dem nom then I will vote for him... samnsara Jan 2020 #2
Me too, but... MarianJack Jan 2020 #5
This!! As Joe said, he'll invite him to the WH for coffee Thekaspervote Jan 2020 #9
Right now, and in this forum Wawannabe Jan 2020 #7
Keep up the fight! Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2020 #35
NOT THIS DU MEMBER!! BERNIE BEATING DOLT45 IS GUARAN-DAMN-TEED!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #58
Then say DownriverDem Jan 2020 #38
He won't be the nominee Watchfoxheadexplodes Jan 2020 #3
I would be 'okay' with Sanders JustAnotherGen Jan 2020 #4
Not me DownriverDem Jan 2020 #39
Bloomberg - or Sanders? JustAnotherGen Jan 2020 #56
There is truth to your words, my friend. demosincebirth Jan 2020 #118
Joe has baggage..a back pack...sanders has a steamer trunk...or 2 Thekaspervote Jan 2020 #6
Sanders has a Tesla rawtribe Jan 2020 #84
True... Skya Rhen Jan 2020 #8
He is my last choice, so he will not get my vote in the primary. MontanaMama Jan 2020 #10
The honorable thing for Bernie to do is drop out Wawannabe Jan 2020 #14
Why should he? He is leading in many of the polls Perseus Jan 2020 #53
Cuz he is NOT a Democrat Wawannabe Jan 2020 #89
What about Liz and Pete. Should they drop out too they're running behind him. I got an idea. vsrazdem Jan 2020 #79
I seriously think TheFarseer Jan 2020 #83
Seriously Wawannabe Jan 2020 #88
The post is about NOT nominating Bernie. Wawannabe Jan 2020 #99
Yes, you made that quite apparent. vsrazdem Jan 2020 #100
If sanders is the nominee, trump will 45+ states Gothmog Jan 2020 #11
Oh so true!! Thekaspervote Jan 2020 #13
Bernie supporters DownriverDem Jan 2020 #41
I dont know about 45... VarryOn Jan 2020 #85
I read a theory today on Twitter... VarryOn Jan 2020 #86
We could all vote 3p if BS nominee... Wawannabe Jan 2020 #90
The 2nd time we dems shot ourselves in the foot. demosincebirth Jan 2020 #102
Post removed Post removed Jan 2020 #12
The numbers aren't there for sanders Thekaspervote Jan 2020 #15
Insulting boomers isn't how Sanders will win. MineralMan Jan 2020 #21
Dick Clark seemed to live forever because for over 30 years.... thewhollytoast Jan 2020 #29
Depends on what you mean by "engage" MineralMan Jan 2020 #33
Divide us DownriverDem Jan 2020 #42
"Dick Clark"? Has not one thing to do with this. Cha Jan 2020 #48
You seem nice. cwydro Jan 2020 #111
No shit. Tipperary Jan 2020 #32
It's a tough old world when people don't share your unsupported allegations. LanternWaste Jan 2020 #23
Not a clear post. Who are you backing? brush Jan 2020 #30
PLUS, tyt, Sam Seder and David pakman Watchfoxheadexplodes Jan 2020 #16
My gut tells me Bernie doesn't really want to be President Baked Potato Jan 2020 #17
Interesting would love to hear why you feel that way Thekaspervote Jan 2020 #18
I was keeping it simple. Baked Potato Jan 2020 #25
DACA squirecam Jan 2020 #119
I used to think that. betsuni Jan 2020 #73
I Wawannabe Jan 2020 #91
Me too! betsuni Jan 2020 #92
The View Of A Former Vermont Govenor Me. Jan 2020 #19
This! Wawannabe Jan 2020 #22
Who would know Bernie better than a longtime fellow Vermonter? nt oasis Jan 2020 #31
Similar to what Barney Frank said: betsuni Jan 2020 #70
THis Me. Jan 2020 #72
I just realized I wrote Bernie Frank instead of Barney Frank. betsuni Jan 2020 #74
HaH! I Read Barney Frank Me. Jan 2020 #96
Very interesting explanation. Thanks. nt spooky3 Jan 2020 #77
Barney Frank Wawannabe Jan 2020 #93
Well, I'd vote for him if he were the nominee in November. MineralMan Jan 2020 #20
I hope I don't have to hold my nose. DownriverDem Jan 2020 #43
To me Bernie doesn't have the qualifications to be a President.... Iamaartist Jan 2020 #24
I am afraid Bernie is going to win Iowa & NH at140 Jan 2020 #26
No way! Wawannabe Jan 2020 #27
I have a sister in Vt, who has held fundraisers for BS in her home. Vt empedocles Jan 2020 #28
K&R Go Joe!! nt NYMinute Jan 2020 #34
He thinks he's perfect? Acts like the current KPN Jan 2020 #36
"WTF? So much for having forum rules."...right! Perseus Jan 2020 #52
Amen to that. KPN Jan 2020 #66
This message was self-deleted by its author vsrazdem Jan 2020 #80
I'm not a troll Wawannabe Jan 2020 #97
Biden can't win peoli Jan 2020 #37
LOL DownriverDem Jan 2020 #45
You don't seem to get peoli's entry Perseus Jan 2020 #64
The original post. My opinion post Wawannabe Jan 2020 #98
I don't have a problem with people expressing their views, but what I do not understand is the vsrazdem Jan 2020 #104
Again Wawannabe Jan 2020 #108
Are you guys trolling me right now? Dr Rise Jan 2020 #40
Bless your heart DownriverDem Jan 2020 #47
STOP THE INFIGHTING!! blakstoneranger Jan 2020 #44
Answer this DownriverDem Jan 2020 #50
I don't know about that. He definitely wants to KPN Jan 2020 #67
He did not flip Warren Perseus Jan 2020 #46
I don't care why people stayed home or voted for Stein...maybe even Trump...if you didn't support Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #103
Sanders voters did not cause Hillary the election. vsrazdem Jan 2020 #114
I am not bashing Wawannabe Jan 2020 #107
The offending started way before this. This is just another bump in the road. vsrazdem Jan 2020 #113
You are ignoring "the script." A script that was untruthfully laid off as a "rogue employee" The Valley Below Jan 2020 #115
Warrens people will stay home if he is nominee and................ MRDAWG Jan 2020 #49
Then they cannot complain if trump does get reelected, can they? Perseus Jan 2020 #55
Not this one mahina Jan 2020 #59
Don't all of these Bernie bashing threads violate our rules? gab13by13 Jan 2020 #51
Saying a candidate is unlikely to win is *NOT* bashing scheming daemons Jan 2020 #57
Yes it is Perseus Jan 2020 #61
Forget all that. Bernie had a heart attack. He said underthematrix Jan 2020 #60
Sure, today is the medical records, and tomorrow something else Perseus Jan 2020 #63
Nope. The medical records are important because he had a heart attack and he's running for the underthematrix Jan 2020 #65
Apparently they don't, because when I saw this first thing this morning, I mentioned this vsrazdem Jan 2020 #81
NOPE Cha Jan 2020 #122
Yikes. iamthebandfanman Jan 2020 #54
Isn't it though. vsrazdem Jan 2020 #82
Ok, here you go, someone making fun of Biden's sttuter Perseus Jan 2020 #62
I am a woman. He will get my vote in the primary. And my daughter's vote, too. And my sons' votes. CozyMystery Jan 2020 #68
He won't get my vote, my husband's vote, my three Daughter's votes, or my son's vote... Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #105
IMO he won't get the nomination. D23MIURG23 Jan 2020 #69
My plan is to vote for him. David__77 Jan 2020 #71
First of all, Bernie has never said that he thinks he is prefect. If you have that totodeinhere Jan 2020 #75
Only trump thinks he's perfect. demosincebirth Jan 2020 #117
I'll vote for a plant if that's the nominee. bamagal62 Jan 2020 #76
Don't think he can win. But he's got a lot a great ideas, and I wish he could win. Hoyt Jan 2020 #78
I'm not voting for him in the primary Dorian Gray Jan 2020 #94
He should've run as a Independent like he is. demosincebirth Jan 2020 #101
And Trump would win. vsrazdem Jan 2020 #110
If Sanders gets the nomination (which I don't think he will) I will hold my nose and vote for him demosincebirth Jan 2020 #116
K&R. Agree! Bleacher Creature Jan 2020 #106
If he can't win then why do so many people redqueen Jan 2020 #120
You took it wrong Wawannabe Jan 2020 #121
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»Sanders can't win»Reply #114