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Member since: 2001
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THIS. Absolutely.

Divide and conquer. Not just some old moth-eaten cliche.

And, btw, to his critics, I'd ask - what's it to you that President Obama can get paid a small fortune for making a speech, now that he's out of office? Isn't he allowed to make a living? Isn't he allowed to command a princely paycheck, considering his resume? That resume means nothing? Those past achievements mean nothing? All those sacrifices he's made throughout his life in service to the public and for the public good mean nothing? I would hope he'd be paid HANDSOMELY for WHATEVER he does from here on out. To me, he's worth it. And he's certainly earned it. Hillary too. I think both of them deserve it, especially considering all the shit each of them has taken - FOR YEARS.

VERY cool!

Ingenious solution, too!

Some of us have been asking questions like that for a long time.

LOTS of uncomfortable questions.

How do we know? There's already the big question mark about what He was up to during those "missing years" - between when He was the Kid who wandered off away from His parents and was later found deep in discussion with a group of Temple elders, and when He emerged as a public figure at approximately age 30. Where'd He go during those mystery years? What did He do? Who'd He go hang out with and/or study with? Who did He meet? What did He learn from those encounters?

When I saw the Scorsese film "The Last Temptation of Christ," I was almost literally thunderstruck. What a revelation! This was like the ultimate "what if". That movie theorized about a Jesus who took a wife, fathered children, had a family and a long and fulfilling life after that. The idea was - while He was dying on the Cross, Satan came to Him and offered Him relief, and He took it. "What if I could make all this go away for You and You wouldn't suffer or die here in pain and public humiliation? You wouldn't be The Savior Who paid the ultimate price to save all the rest of us. But You wouldn't have to die so horribly like this, and You'd have a happy, peaceful, and deeply satisfying life, and You could still preach and all that." And He took it, and lived to a ripe old age with lots of children and grandchildren around Him and a loving wife and all those other good, but earthly, mortal things. And by doing so, He thereby realized that He couldn't be our Savior if He chose that easier, more pleasant option. So He ultimately rejected Satan's tempting offer, even after being given the chance to taste it. There was a HUGE public outcry from hardline Christians who just hated the movie and protested it and made a big stink out of it. I thought it was one of the most magnificent movies EVER. Because it really pointed out, in the clearest and most glaring terms, the magnitude of The Sacrifice. It gave you an idea of what Jesus gave up, that He certainly could have had, if He'd chosen the less painful path.

What if He'd gotten married? What if Mary Magdalene was His girlfriend, or lover, or wife? What if He had several girlfriends (remember Mary and Martha, the sisters of Lazarus)? What if He'd been sexually active? After all, weren't we all taught that the whole point of His coming down to earth was to live as one of us? He wasn't sent down in some fiery chariot with a lot of winged horses and angels with trumpets announcing His arrival. And He didn't reign from some sort of fabulous palace with everybody waiting on Him and bowing to Him as some sort of earthly king. He was born in a barn. Started His life homeless. Didn't have that much after that, so we're told. And He certainly wasn't a property owner. He pretty much went through life with just the clothes on His back, and the generosity and hospitality of friends and followers, as we're taught.

As a mother, I often find myself imagining my own "what if's" about Christ. Did He have siblings? Why wouldn't He, since the whole premise of Him living as one of us meant the possibility of brothers and sisters. There was no birth control back then, after all. Did He have a pet? Did He fight with His friends and siblings? Did He catch cold? Have to skip school? Forget His homework? What did He have for toys? Did He have a favorite? Did He always need to sleep with a teddy bear or some such thing? What did He do for recreation? What did He like to eat? What was the favorite treat His mom would make for Him? What food did He find yucky? Did He ever fall down and skin His knees and have to go to whatever medical services there might have been back then? Did He ever break His arm or leg? Did He break stuff around the house - His mother's favorite flower vase, a stool His dad made in the carpenter's shop? Did He make mischief like most kids do? Did He have a messy room? What was His favorite subject in school? What was His worst subject? He was presumably here to live as one of us, so why wouldn't He have the same kinds of experiences as the rest of us do?

Indeed - what if He was gay? As you point out, kag, He DID hang around with a bunch of dudes. And Mary Magdalene was supposedly in there a lot, too, but we just don't know. Besides, the Gospel of Mary was omitted when later church elders decided to figure out, once and for all, what books of the Bible were to be retained and which were to be dismissed. But what little we know of it is that she was evidently regarded as His favorite, and the guys all resented her for it. But we'll never know. We sure won't ever know from a woman's viewpoint. Even His mother's story - what there is of it - was told by men.

One thing on which I don't necessarily agree with you, kag. I don't think it's silly at all. Why SHOULDN'T we be curious about Him and the life He led - particularly all those parts that weren't documented? I think it's totally reasonable and healthy - and I suspect it would only enhance the love and reverence we feel toward Him, and help us relate to Him all the more fully. We're taught that He came down to this plane to live as one of us and to share the fullness of our reality. So why wouldn't it be His reality as well?

Welcome to DU, Bluepinky.

Gotta say I'm with DesertFlower on this one. I was and still am a strong Hillary supporter. And yes, I saw Hillary people defending her here, and vigorously. But I NEVER saw the level of vitriol from that side leveled against Bernie supporters. It was rather - um - lopsided, to put it delicately.

Obviously there are still lots of open wounds. Wounds that aren't healing. Memories that won't fade - for quite some time. That's an especially difficult task for those who found themselves on the receiving end. Gotta admit - I'm still having trouble getting over it, myself. It must also be said that, as we've all since discovered, many of those "bros" were probably trolls and other nogoodniks who invaded here and elsewhere online to stir shit up. Some of them originated from as far away as Macedonia and Albania, funded by Russian adventurism, supported by Putin and company who hoped that dissension and confusion and division and disruption could be spread all over our side. French voters are being subjected to that Russian-sourced stealth trolling even now. There are multitudes of credible reports by now of how Putin's people have fanned out across the globe to disrupt - so that the West is weakened and compromised - all the better for Russia, 'eh?

I don't know how we get over it. I hope we do, but I'm not sure how we get there. All I know, or have read, or have observed - is that Bernie seems to want to remain a divisive figure, and doesn't seem interested in helping us all heal - unless/until everybody gets in line and sees things his way, that is. And as a woman who is ARDENTLY pro-choice, I can't understand why he seems so determined to push women's issues aside. I wish I could ask him (and EVERY MALE POLITICIAN, for that matter) - what if it was YOUR body into which government wanted to intrude? What if it was YOUR privacy, regarding that little bit of real estate between YOUR neck and YOUR knees, into which the full force of big government wanted to come stomping? I'm guessing you wouldn't like it. And you'd probably want to fight it. Just like we women do - whenever we see the threat of an anti-choice candidate arising, ANYWHERE.

I'd be gravely disappointed, and pretty pissed off, if Hillary stepped up for Mello, for example. I'd feel betrayed. The more anti-choice candidates succeed, the sooner my right to have the last word over MY body (and the right of my daughter and all her friends - and YOUR daughter, too, if you have one) will be taken away.


Very wise words.

Sometimes maybe we forget that all of this is temporary.

Indeed. She understands the family schtick, perfectly.

Welcome to DU, Maxheader!

Point taken. But I suspect I'll be out there booing these scheming greedy mercenary cheaters, as often as I might get the chance. Her father isn't a king. And she's not some crown princess, as she seems to be trying to project.

"Shop Ivanka's Look!"

I remember that. Really pissed me off.

A smudging ceremony would be good, too. With sacred sage. For purification.

That's my Congressman!

Somewhere here, we were asking each other about who else we've got, as far as leaders of our party.

Allow me to nominate Ted Lieu. I didn't think we could do better than Henry Waxman, but somehow, we did! I see him as worthy of bigger things in the future. He's WUNNNNNNNderful, and he sure represents my interests and concerns. I notice he's getting more face time on MSNBC - with Joy Reid in particular. GOOD! I want him to gain a higher profile. He could go far! We need him!
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