March 30, 2016

Where some of my $27 went

I've seen a lot of grumbling about how the Sanders campaign is somehow grifting people just to line their own pockets.

But that's easily shown to be another distortion.

http://vetsforbernie.org/2016/03/chief-says-bernie-first-ever-to-pay/

March 26, 2016

I agree that this is not a game

I was very careful to give you no reason to attack me, so you simply made one up.

Your behavior is exactly why I hate political parties. They breed it, they cultivate it, and the leaders happily use it as a weapon to divide us for their benefit, not ours.

There is no reason for us to fight with one another during the primary. There is no reason for us to fight with the republican voters during the general. There is near-endless common ground to be had, even with the people you imagine you hate, but people utterly refuse to even look--they'd rather fight among themselves WHEN THEY LITERALLY HAVE NO REASON AT ALL.

The "BernieBros" problem is fucking made up.

All this conspiracy theory bullshit about Hillary rigging the primaries is fucking made up.

Absolutely every single goddamned thing everyone in this forum is fighting about is fucking made up. They're little more than shit being tossed around in a cage full of angry monkeys.

If you would drop that crap long enough to listen, consider, and offer an honest response, you'd make a ton of headway on each and every issue you care to discuss. You are clearly intelligent--I've read quite a few of your comments--so I know you can help fix these problems, but you have to get away from this petty sniping first. Are the republican candidates pushing insane policies? Yes. Should republican voters pressure their leaders to NOT push insane policies? Yes. Will we talk them into that by calling them "repukes" and taking cheap shots? No. Will we change the minds of those republicans by fighting ourselves here? Absolutely not. Millions of people dropping the bullshit and actually holding leaders to account is the real way to fix things. Simply trading off the majority in congress every few years while we call people name does nothing.

The one and only thing I'm genuinely afraid of for this country's future is the ability of political parties to make people think that they should fight with one another instead of fighting with the assholes who do the damage. Bush retires to his ranch, the democrats in congress straight-up refuse to prosecute obvious war crimes, you fight with me, and my old friends and everyone else who died in Iraq continue to rot in the cold ground. You think maybe some of that energy needs to be redirected just a tad?

If Bernie gets elected, good, I like him. If Clinton gets elected, good, I like her. If Trump gets elected, well I'll cope. Either way, I'll write letters, I'll make calls, I'll talk to people in person, I'll join protests, etc. to relentlessly pressure THEM. It's my job as a citizen. But I will not be herded into attacking my compatriots.

Not even the assholes.

March 25, 2016

I am a democrat today only because of the Bernie Sanders campaign

I see comment after comment, stating that "Sanders hasn't been a democrat for long enough to do X."

How long after becoming a democrat should I consider myself a worthless nobody?

March 25, 2016

I did not vote against Hillary Clinton

I voted for Bernie Sanders.

My support of my candidate is not an attack on his opponent.

I am not unusual.

March 24, 2016

To the endless suggestions that Sanders pack it up and leave

Bernie was asked about that and gave a very good response that clearly addresses the reasons he should stay in the race.

Question & Answer at 8:17

?t=8m17s

Short version: people called his run hopeless from day one and he's made this much progress, so why stop now? Besides, many states still need to vote. He is clearly giving voice to quite a few voters, and his run continues to amplify that voice.

He also went on to discuss the vital importance of raising voter turnout and a 50-state strategy.

None of our candidates are bad guys.

March 20, 2016

86,519,347 Have chosen none of the above in the races so far

Data

Average turnout: 27.3%

Total eligible voters so far: 119,008,730

It seems that the negative campaigning and demolition of people's characters is failing to energize most voters.

Honestly, I think one of the worst features around this place is ignore. I realize that it's certainly convenient to shut out people who are constantly inciting anger for anger's sake, but it looks as if pro-whatever people have all filtered out the anti-whatever people and there are two kinds of discussions in here: stuff posted by pro-Hillary folks seems to get almost exclusively pro-Hillary responses, stuff posted by pro-Bernie folks seems to get almost exclusively pro-Bernie responses. It leaves little room for any actual discussion that may either educate people or change minds. Instead it's a torrent of hit pieces and accusations.

But it is a nice (in a way) microcosm of what's happening in the real world: two increasingly insular groups are inspiring fewer and fewer voters. Those voters genuinely don't care who started it--they just see angry people shouting and lying, so turnout is abysmal.

I'd suggest you take a couple of steps: clear out your ignore lists and start critically reading what your 'enemies' post, and strive to write your own posts that are worth reading. Think of it as practice for the real world. You can safely try and fail here with zero consequences since what happens on an internet discussion board is irrelevant.

Then you'll be ready to go out and fix the fundamental problem of living in a democracy where nobody gives a damn. If you can fix that then the other issues become trivial.

March 20, 2016

86,519,347 Chose none of the above

Data

Average turnout: 27.3

Total eligible voters: 119,008,730

Maybe everyone should cool it with the smarmy negative campaigning?

March 18, 2016

Why do you support your candidate?

In an effort to start a non-negative discussion...

Without attacking anyone else (including supporters) either blatantly or by insinuation, what are the positive reasons you can assert to tell others that your candidate will be beneficial to them?

March 17, 2016

Hello from reddit. I've seen quite a few posters from here over there.

I wanted to pop in and talk to you guys about the tone of supporters. I've collected links to the two major subs:
/r/SandersForPresident and /r/HillaryClinton. These links span the day before the respective primary/caucus to the day after and are all at the end of this comment. Feel free to peruse them and take note of the tone in OPs and comments.

The general pattern in the Sanders group has been to focus on participation. There is certainly some negative stuff towards Clinton, but it only gets traction after a loss, and even then it's not much. Really vile stuff gets downvoted into oblivion or removed. The bulk of the posts are positive: here's why we vote FOR Sanders, here's what you can do to participate, here's how you can amplify your own voice. Voter turnout is a big deal. That message comes from the top.

OTOH, in the Hillary sub the general tone is more geared towards shaming people out of voting for anyone but Hillary. Actually there was a top post that explicitly discussed shaming anyone who'd vote Trump. But there is far less discussion of positively influencing the election. It mostly turns on an air of inevitability and calling Sanders' supporters misguided. That message also comes from the top.

And then there's "BernieBros." Now, it has nowhere near the stigma of actual racist slander, but it's still being used in exactly the same way--it's a name that emphasizes the worst part of a group and tries to paint all other members of that group as equivalent. It gets used as a verbal weapon to shut down conversations all the time. I see lots of that around here, too.

The latest talking point appears to be telling Sanders’ supporters that solicitations for donations are usurious at this point and that donating to his campaign is a waste of money. More of the shaming/calling people stupid angle.

Hillary’s campaign is looking like the Wendy Davis campaign in Texas. And you Hillary people should really be worried about this if you’re as afraid of Trump as you let on.

Wendy Davis ran a campaign of “I am not.” What she wasn’t was a conservative, and while that’s a workable way to campaign to democrats, it gets zero traction among conservatives. So, in the conservative state of Texas, she went nowhere.

As to how this compares to Hillary, her campaign to this point is largely built on “I am not.” She caricatures her opponent and then points and says, “I am not that.” And that works fine for people who already support her. But it goes nowhere fast for people who oppose her. That’s part of the reason you see so many comments to the effect of “Sanders or bust.” Her campaign has done nothing to appeal to them, and then the supporters come in to heap on the shame for failing to comply (eg. “Not voting for Hillary is the same as voting for Trump.”)

I’ve got bad news. Many of the Sanders base would otherwise be in the Trump base (Trump has a whole lot of disaffected democrats), so comments like that only energize them. Now, I know there’s a lot of confusion as to why there would be any overlap between Trump and sanders people, so let me explain what I’ve seen from canvassing. It goes back to Hillary’s “I am not,” campaign. Most of the failed republican field has run similar campaigns of “I am not” (the only other republicans left in the race are the two who got away from that). Trump and Sanders are both running campaigns built on “We can be.” Sure, Trump is full of crap, but that doesn’t matter to a lot of people because they think lying is an integral part of politics and he’s just beating the rest at their own game. However, some are turned off by him and instead have turned to Sanders’ positive message and his long reputation for honest work. If Sanders leaves the race, they won’t abandon their dream of a better future and Hillary simply isn’t articulating one. She just talks about her past and keeping us on the same track we’re on today—which doesn’t look very appealing to the people sliding into poverty. No amount of insulting and shaming them will change that.

When I see folks try to say the two parties are just two sides of the same coin there are always people who decry the false equivalency and adamantly assert that the two parties are fundamentally different. But if those people get called out on negative campaigning from Hillary, then equivalency is just fine. Fact is that the Sanders campaign is positive, the Clinton campaign is negative, and the Trump campaign is utterly immune to the negative. Just as the Abbott campaign was in Texas.

Inspired voters vote, browbeaten voters don’t.

I’ll be backing the Sanders campaign all the way to the convention. I work for people who actually work FOR my vote.


Iowa, Clinton: link

Iowa, Sanders: link

New Hampshire, Clinton: link

New Hampshire, Sanders: link

Nevada, Clinton: link

Nevada, Sanders: link

South Carolina, Clinton: link

South carolina, Sanders: link

Super Tuesday, Clinton: link

Super Tuesday, Sanders: link

March 5th, Clinton: link

March 5th, Sanders: link

Maine, Clinton: link

Maine, Sanders: link

Michigan & Mississippi, Clinton: link

Michigan & Mississippi, Sanders: link

Marianas Islands, Clinton: link

Marianas Islands, Sanders: link

Second Super Tuesday, Clinton: link

Second Super Tuesday, Sanders : link